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Selling is an integral part of life.

Don’t believe me?

Think about all the ways we’re constantly selling ourselves (and others) on ideas, concepts, and actions. You may sell yourself on the idea that it’s better for you to wake up at 6 a.m. and do a workout than it is to hit the snooze button ten times. Or you might sell your friend on the idea that they should book an amazing vacation with you so you can make some lifelong memories together.

Being good at selling is key to being good at life.

To talk about selling and why it’s so important, I’m joined on this episode by Stacey Boehman. Stacey has several programs that are designed to help life coaches get better at selling, make more money, and deliver more value to more people. We discuss why it’s so important for life coaches (and everyone else) to learn how to sell well. We talk about separating the benefits the seller gets from sales from the benefits the client gets from sales, why you should focus on the latter, and why you have to really believe in what you’re selling.

What you will discover

  • Why so many people make the mistake of thinking that they don’t need to know how to sell.
  • Two simple definitions of selling that make it clear why selling is such an important skill.
  • Stacey’s thoughts on whether some people are naturally better at selling than others.
  • Why selling is actually about believing in the value of your offering, rather than simply making money.
  • How to separate the value the client will get from a sale and the benefit the seller gets.
  • Why selling is fundamentally about what you’re giving, not what you’re getting.
  • How selling is helpful in learning how to become a life coach.
  • Why you shouldn’t try to sell something that you yourself wouldn’t be excited about buying.

Featured on the show

Episode Transcript

Welcome to The Life Coach School Podcast, where it’s all about real clients, real problems and real coaching. And now your host, Master Coach Instructor, Brooke Castillo.

Brooke: Holy cow, you guys are in for it today. I have one of my favorites on today. She might be my favorite person. She just might be. Don't worry, all you other favorites. Stacey Boehman is here. She is otherwise known as Stacey Smith, but she's Boehman now because moving up in the world.

And I wanted - Stacey's been on the podcast a couple times before. You've heard her in the 100K podcast, you heard her in the millions podcast. But I wanted to have her all to myself so we could talk about selling. Because Stacey and I have a shared mission in life and I feel like we're going to spend a lot of time together over the next 10 years because we are hugely dedicated to helping life coaches make money.

And we talk about it all the time and I wonder about it all the time, and we're going to come up with all the solutions for all the life coaches on how to make money. But one of the most important things that we will both agree on is selling. So, Stacey, will you just do a brief introduction for those people who don't know you and why might I have chosen you to talk about selling.

Stacey: Yes, so I am the future Mrs. Stacey Boehman as of 2020, and I help life coaches make money. That is what I do all day long. What I did previous to coaching, which is why I think that you love when I talk about sales is I used to travel the country and sell mops in Walmart and slicers in grocery stores and everything - I literally did live infomercials in department stores on military bases all across the country. I was the best in the United States. I would win the top sales award years and years and years in a row, and I used to be called the queen of the military bases.

I really just have this like, uncanny ability to - I'm just able so deeply to connect with anybody. It doesn't matter who they are. Whether they're in the K Mart in the Bronx, New York, or we're in a fufu store in Podunk, Kentucky is what we would call it, or if we're in Burbank, California, it doesn't matter. I was able to always create connection really quickly and build a relationship within the sales process that always had people feeling so trusting in working with me and then I would sell like crazy.

Brooke: Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons of course I love talking to you about sales is because you're amazing at selling, but there are a lot of really good salespeople in the world who are not also good teachers. And so I think sometimes people are super good at selling but they don't know why, so they don't know how to teach other people to do it. You have kind of that ninja skill on both sides. So you're an amazing saleswoman, you're an amazing coach, and you're an amazing teach to teach coaches how to sell.

And I wanted to devote an entire podcast to selling and this is not just for my life coach listeners. This is for everyone because I think that a lot of people think this doesn't apply to them like, oh, I don't sell, or I'm not into sales, and you're wrong because selling is what you do with your life. And the better you are at selling, the better you are at life.

And so I wanted to share - we teach all of our coaches how to sell obviously, and Stacey has an amazing program. It's called 2K for 2K where you learn how to make your first sales as a life coach, and she takes you through all of your mind drama so you can get over yourself to make that first sale, and she guarantees it. It's one of the best programs out there. I highly recommend that you check it out. We'll put the link in the show notes.

But that's specifically for life coaches, but I wanted to kind of broaden it out a little bit and talk about selling for everyone because having an amazing life requires amazing skills and one of the most important skills is selling. So as I was getting ready for this podcast, I was thinking about what my definition of selling is, and I hadn't really thought like, how would I define it in a general sense. I know how to define it for life coaches. So I'm going to ask you first. What - do you have a definition?

Stacey: I wanted to hear yours first. I'll tell you mine. Mine is so simple. It's inspiring people into action.

Brooke: Inspiring people into action. Awesome.

Stacey: Or, and like I think you're always selling yourself too, so you're inspiring yourself into action or someone else.

Brooke: Ours are very similar. So I think what selling is is helping someone see the value of something. So I think about how we sell the restaurant we want to eat at, we sell the chandelier to our husband that we want in the bathroom, allegedly. We sell someone on letting us in at a discount or letting us in free or whatever. And it's always selling that person on the value of them doing the thing, which is very similar to inspiring them into action.

Sometimes though, I think we sell people on ideas that don't require action, so that's the only reason - like, I was thinking about the whole model. I think sometimes we just sell people on thoughts and sell people on concepts, and so one of the reasons why I think it's so important for coaches to learn to sell is you're always selling when you're coaching. You're always selling when you're teaching, and you're always selling when you're coaching yourself because you're basically selling yourself on a new idea or a new concept or a new action that you want to take for yourself.

And when we're talking to our clients, we're constantly having to sell them on doing the thing that they don't want to do, the scary thing that they don't want to do. So the thing that I think is interesting is most people - and I'll be curious what you think about this - most people will say that they're a natural born salespeople. They're people that are just naturally talented at it and there's people that aren't. What are your thoughts on that?

Stacey: I think it's the worst story you could ever tell yourself.

Brooke: I agree.

Stacey: It will hold you back so much. And I came into life coaching knowing how to sell and being a sales expert, but the reason I was a sales expert coming into coaching is they taught, just like I teach my clients, I have a four-step process. They taught a seven-step process in doing infomercials and I went in every single day, every day without fail and I would focus my entire - we did 10 shows a day, and every show I'd be working on - we called them the fundamentals and I would be working those every single day.

And any time I didn't understand something I would ask my trainers why that was, why are we doing that, what's the purpose of this, and it was the same in selling clients on consults. I didn't know how to do that. Even though I knew how to sell I didn't know how to inspire someone on themselves and into coaching and wanting to take action to sign up for coaching and I didn't have anyone to teach me either. There isn't a great sales program out there.

There is now, but there wasn't when I started coaching and I would go on every single consult and ask why that happened, why that happened, why that happened. I was always asking why the client said this, why the client said that in my brain after. Like I teach my clients now to do consult evaluations. Evaluate after every single time and you ask really great questions like why, you will learn so much and your sales skill will naturally develop but no one's just born that way. That's something that anybody can develop. It is literally something you can learn like the Model. Anybody can learn the Model.

Brooke: That's right. And I think a lot of people will say they're a natural born salesperson when they're good at selling without thinking about like, what have they been practicing? Maybe they haven't been in a sales job, but maybe they've been a coach or maybe they've been a therapist or maybe they've been a teacher. Maybe they've been in a position where they're selling in a way that isn't in the traditional sense, which I think is so fascinating to think about all the areas where we do sales.

And so I watched some of our students sometimes when we say okay, now we're going to learn how to sell, they like, cringe up like, well, I've never done that before. I'm like, listen to me, if you've sold yourself on eating kale over ice cream, you have sold yourself. If you've sold yourself of getting out of bed when the alarm goes off, you've sold yourself on certain friends, on certain parties, on certain clothes, on certain everything. And so I love the way that we talk about - and you've talked about this too - I talk about it, we both talk about this differently but how we sell each other on stuff that actually has nothing to do with us getting any value from it.

So for example, if you were to meet someone that didn't have an iPhone - I was thinking about this the other day - and they're like oh yeah, I just have this flip phone, it's fine, I just - you press the number three times and then it gives you a C. You're like, what are you talking about? Get an iPhone. And they'd be like, no, I think this is fine. And you would yell in their face at them, you would spend so much time selling then on getting an iPhone.

Not because it would benefit you, right? I'm not benefitted if you get an iPhone, but you believe in it so hard that even if they said no, no, I'm okay, you wouldn't be like, oh, alright, I guess that didn't work. You'd be like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Stacey: Yeah, but I think that's because I think people misunderstand too like, I think selling is all about believing. The more you believe in something, the more you're going to share something. Whether it's you believe in - I talk all the time about my computer to my clients. I'm like, oh my god, you got to get the Macbook Pro, it's so good, or whatever it is, it's like the iPhone. You are selling based on your deep belief. So I think those people that are "natural born sellers" or the people that can sell without even understanding why they're selling, they're selling because they just believe so deeply, they don't have any doubt in their mind that someone wouldn't want what they're talking about because they want it and love it so much.

Brooke: So if we go to this definition because I want to kind of give them some actionable steps here. So if we go to this definition of helping someone see the value in something, so let's use the example of the iPhone. There's two components of it. I have to understand the thing and the value of the thing, but also the value of the thing to the person I'm selling to. And I think that's - it has to be a match made in heaven because an iPhone could be super valuable to someone and not valuable to someone else.

Someone that lives remotely that doesn't have Wi-Fi, that doesn't have cell service, that person isn't going to see the value in the iPhone. So you have to understand the person you're talking to and then you also have to understand the value of the thing. And when you believe in both of those things and understand both of those things clearly, selling is so easy.

You and I use the example of cancer. Like, if you find out someone has cancer and you know that there's a cure for cancer and you just heard about it and you know they can buy it, nothing else matters. You don't need a closing technique, you don't need an overcoming objection technique. You're like, listen, you have cancer, this is the cure to cancer, I don't care what the price is, we're going to find the money, this is happening.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%. I was just giving an example in my 2K program. It was a very lavish example, but I was like listen, if you had the cure for cancer, you would be out on the street shaking people. Like, grab them physically and shake them and be like, why aren't you taking this cure for cancer? You wouldn't be - here's what you wouldn't be doing. You wouldn't be concerned about your own feelings.

Brooke: Right, yeah. And you wouldn't be concerned like, I hope I didn't come on too strong. And so I think that if you just simplify sales down to helping someone see the value in something for their benefit. Now, you may benefit in the transaction, you may or may not benefit. But when you start thinking about yourself and how you're going to benefit and the value that you're going to create, you are confusing what selling is about.

Selling is - you have to separate those two things out. So for example, when I'm talking to somebody about coach training or I'm talking to somebody about Scholars, those are the two main things that I sell. And when someone tells me that they can't afford it or that they don't know if they have the ability to do it or they give me all of their reasons for that. None of that matters at all to me because I see their reasons don't match the value of what I'm offering so I'm like, they're confused. Honestly genuinely, that's all that I feel is like, oh no, I haven't done my job of explaining that this is the most amazing thing that you can ever do in the world, and your reason for not doing it doesn't match up so I'm going to try again.

Stacey: Yeah, and I think it's important to talk about what that looks like, what you're doing there. What you're doing in that moment where you're like, they're confused is you're not making it mean something about you. You're not getting in this emotional distress about it. You're not having a reaction to their answer because you're just so in your belief that truly it doesn't matter if they see the value or not and so...

Brooke: I'm going to keep trying until they do. If you believe in it, right? So I'm trying to think about you're right now in my master coach training and you're also in my million-dollar mastermind, and we're going to go, for the million-dollar mastermind, to this amazing mansion in Florida. And I present it to you and I show it to you and you're like, oh, I don’t know if I want to go there. And I would be like, okay, you clearly haven't looked at the pictures.

Stacey: I already did look at the pictures.

Brooke: Right. But if you would have said no, I would have been like, look at the pictures. Do you see the pictures? Now, let me tell you what we're going to do every day and if you were like no, I'd be like, Stacey, listen to me. Come to me. Help me understand why you're saying no. Now, I'm going to ask you that question because I'm confused as to why you aren't all in. Because this is the value of this amazing thing, we're going to go there, we're going to have the best time ever, we're going to talk about business. There's nothing wrong with the scenario at all.

Now, if you come back and you give a reason that you're getting that married that weekend or something, then we're done and it's fine. But if the reason is like, I just don’t know if it's worth the money or I just don't know if I can make the time or stuff like that, it doesn't disappoint me that you think that at all. It doesn't upset me and I don't ever stop believing when you tell me those things that you're still going to go. That's the difference.

When you say to me, well, I don't know if I can afford it, I'm like, okay Stacey, seriously, what are you talking about? You just made a million dollars, this is fine. This is not too expensive for you. So I think a lot of times someone will say to us because we aren't believing in the value hard enough, and this is what I'm always saying to my students. Believing in something hard, we aren't believing in the value so when somebody says well, I don't want to pay for this trip and I'm like, well okay.

Now, if I do that, what do we miss out on? We miss out on your company, you miss out on the trip, which is going to be life changing, life altering, you're going to get so much more out of that trip than any amount of money you could spend on it, and I feel like in that moment, I've given up on the experience, the value of the experience, myself, and you.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%. This is what I tell my coaches and it's really interesting to think about this is if you're on a sale - I know this isn't for everybody that would be in a sales situation like on a sales call, but if you're on a sales call, what would change if you never left the belief that the client was going to buy and that they wanted to buy, and that they would get results? Because I think for life coaches specifically, that's their biggest fear and the reason they don't sell is because they're not 100%, they're not 100% believing that they will get results.

Whether it's based on their thoughts about the other person or their thoughts about their own coaching, they're not 100% sure so they don’t feel this compulsion to fight for that. But what if you just believed they would get results and they did want it and they were going to be a yes? And the first no to me feels like the reflux of the mind.

Brooke: Totally. And it's fear, right? It's fear coming up. But I've read a long time ago like, when you have a sales conversation, somebody is going to be more successful at selling. So it's either the person is selling you on the idea that they're incapable of doing something or you're selling them on the idea that they are. And I believe that the reason I am so exceptional at sales is I believe in the human potential. I believe in the possibility of what people are capable of beyond any excuse they can give me.

Stacey: But you're so good at that because you are the example.

Brooke: Because I have sold myself first.

Stacey: Yeah. I think a lot of people try to go like - they try to go sell other people before they've sold themselves.

Brooke: Yes, let's talk about that. I mean, that's true for anything that - the whole example of the used car salesman, where someone is - they're trying to convince you to do something that they know is not good for you or they don't believe is good for you and that's why it feels so creepy and terrible.

Stacey: Or even that they're just like - they might think it's great for you but they're not coming from having listened to you and having really - I think there's your model and then there's your client's model and I think it's really muddy when you're in your model and selling anything, but when you're just in your client's model and you're just thinking about them and focused on them, and it's like the belief in yourself and your product and just people's potential for change, that's like, the backbone. It's just what's holding you up always. But then you just - focusing on the client and their model keeps you out of that creepy I'm going to sell you something even if it's not - I'm not listening to you say x, y, z, I'm just going to sell you something for me. It's like selling for me versus selling for you.

Brooke: Which I think is hard for people to separate, so we should talk about it because how do I - we have one of our Scholars, she sells window blinds and she wants to be her top salesperson. She wants to 10 times her...

Stacey: Yeah, I remember her.

Brooke: Yeah. And so let's say that's her goal in her mind. Coaches have goals, all salespeople have goals. She goes in and she's like, I need to sell five blinds per customer in order for me to meet my goal. If she goes into that house and she's trying to sell five blinds to those people because that's what she needs to do her goal, she's not going to sell anything because she's not helping them understand the value of something for them.

You have to go in and sell them the number of blinds they need for the number of windows that they have. And that's where it gets confused where we start thinking, but this is what I want and this person needs to give it to me. As soon as you get into a sales situation where you think that someone is giving something to you instead of the other way around, you're doing it wrong.

Stacey: I think so many coaches do this with creating their programs. They create their programs totally all about them, like they're doing bi-weekly coaching and then when I ask them why they're like, well because I have to run my errands and do my stuff in my life. And I'm like, no. You haven't thought about your client at all and what they might need.

Brooke: I just want to make sure that you guys hear this. This is so important. Selling is about what you're giving. Not about what you're getting. What you get is a byproduct that happens later. Much later. So this is how I think about sales and everybody should think about this regardless of where you are. This is how I think about money. I show up and provide my value 100% wherever I am. The value in money will come back to me in ways that I don't know, and it's none of my business.

I know how the world works. When you create value, it comes back. It may come back with this person, it may come back through some other form of money that I can't even anticipate, which is usually what happens. But my only goal when I go into that person's house is to look at their windows and to think about what I have that can make their windows better. From the deepest part of my heart, I have to love this person's windows. And I have to love the curtains and the shades that I can put on these windows. Period.

And then all I'm going to do is sell them on the value of how amazing my certain curtains are, regardless of how much commission I make or any of that sort of stuff. You have to separate it out because as soon as you think about what you're going to get personally, then you turn into someone who's needy and creepy. You step out of selling, you step out of showing them the value of what you have for them, and you switch into getting into this like, scarcity mentality and what's in it for you, and you'll never sell from that place. Thank goodness. You never really see super rich used car salesmen.

Stacey: Yeah.

Brooke: Because they have to be so needy and creepy that it doesn't work. But when you are in the world, focused 100% on what you can give, that is it. I can give you the most amazing curtain for this most amazing window, and here's why that's all I have to do to create abundance beyond my wildest imagination. So listen, you have to think about what you want, you have to think about your errands, you have to think about all of it. And then you have to put it all aside and prioritize your client.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%. And I think we should talk about how you do that. How do you go in and just focus on the window treatments and how you can serve that client? And I think it's two really simple things. It's being 100% sufficient with where you are and believing, so not needing anything else, and then also believing that you will find the amount of people to order the amount of window treatments that you need out there regardless of what this person in front of you says.

Brooke: Exactly. So let's play it out. Let's play it out. So we go in, this is our process for selling anything. And as coaches that have the Model, we have little variances and different ways, but the bottom line is we go in, step one is understand your client's problem. Where are they, what do they want? So we're going to go in. Let's say Stacey and I are the blind girls. Imagine how many fucking blinds we would sell. So we go in and we're like, tell us, Janet, tell us everything. What do we want to know from Janet? Are we talking to Janet about blinds? Are we talking to Janet about coupons? Are we talking to her about nothing?

Stacey: Talking about how she wants to feel in her house.

Brooke: Seriously, she doesn't even know our name. Barely. All we care about is what Janet wants and why she wants it. So Janet's going to show us her house, and Janet's going to show us her windows, and she's going to talk about I need a purple window shade in here. And what are we going to say? Why purple? Why? Tell us. Because she's going to have a reason. We think we know that she likes the color purple. That's not the reason. She's not another reason. Because of the skylight or the globe that goes on at night, who knows?

Why? Understand. Where is she now? What problems does she have? Why does she even need blinds? Does she even need blinds? All the questions. This is what we call the before process. And really listening to them. Now, this is where we see a lot of people make mistakes. Immediately, I'll say, I need a purple blind, and then I'll say, I have a purple blind. I have a purple blind. Look at this, it's on sale. Let me give you this purple blind.

You shush. It is not your turn to talk about what you have yet. All you care about is Janet, what her house is like, how she wants to feel, what issues she has with her windows, is it privacy, is it light? What else with windows? Is it just having them look pretty?

Stacey: Yeah, it's aesthetics, I actually just got window treatments. It's aesthetics, it's all kinds of things.

Brooke: Melody's listening to this, she's like, come on, get me on this podcast. There's the way the shade looks on the inside of the window, there's the way the shade looks on the outside of the window. Janet isn't thinking about that. She's just looking at her house from the inside. We got to make sure that we understand all of the things that she doesn't understand. We ask her all the questions that she doesn't even know that she needs to be asked. That's all we're doing in the beginning. We just want to know what does Janet need.

Okay, what does Janet want? Where is she now and where does she want to end up? Then, we have to honestly evaluate if we can get her there. Do we have the purple blinds that look good on the inside and outside that'll cover the large windows that she has in her house, whatever. And we have an absolute obligation that if we can't help her, we don't try to sell her.

Stacey: Yes, 100%.

Brooke: Ever. Look, I don’t have purple blinds. I don't have a way of getting purple blinds. Now, maybe I can refer her to someone. That has to be the most important thing. If you can't help them, first of all, you have to understand where they're at and where they want to go to know if you can help them. But typically, if you do your marketing right, you're going to be in front of people that you know you can help.

Stacey: And the worst thing ever is when you offer something to someone that they don't want and they've told you that they want something different and you're like, but this is what you should want, this is what I have, and you try to like, sell them on something that they have told you they don't want. I mean, everybody's had that experience. It feels terrible.

Brooke: Right. It's like, you don't really want purple. Pink is really nice. Really nice. And you don't really need drapes. You should just use these vinyl blinds. And you could talk someone into something and you could use your sales techniques to have them believe in something that you don't really believe in. But I promise you, you have not created value and even though that person may pay you money, you have not created the balance of value in the world, and that I think is the most important thing you have to understand.

Because you get money here today from this person does not mean that you've created the abundance of value that will continue that for you. As many times as you are genuinely offering value to someone is when you will get the value back. Period. That is it. That is the law of selling. Okay, so you have their before, you have their after, we understand what Janet wants.

Now, at this point, if I have done my work, if Stacey's done her work, we are so excited about the possibilities for Janet. We're like, "Oh my gosh, we could do this and we could do this and then we could do this purple one." We're so excited, we have all these ideas, we are generating so much excitement because we have the solution, we have the value to offer her that will give her exactly what she wants in her house and in her life.

And so we're going to show her, this is how it'll look, this is how it'll feel, this is why you should buy from us, this is why we're the ones, all the things. And this is how we're going to get her there. Now, if we've done that well, we've generated that emotion. Why is that so important, Stacey, for us to generate emotion for her, with her?

Stacey: Well, so I think for two reasons. Number one, we only take action from how we feel, and I always say we never buy stuff from need. We hate buying stuff from need so you don't want to go sell the window treatments because you really need this, otherwise people are going to be looking in your house. I always say like, think of something right now that you need to buy. What is it? And everybody always says toilet paper. And it's like, that's not exciting. There has to be a desire and a need. They have to feel the want. They have to be really compelled and excited because that's the only way they're going to take action. They're not going to do it from need. They've got to do it from want.

Brooke: Yes. And helping people see those possibilities. It's like, you had us come out here because you want to spruce up your house, but we are going to do that and so much more. We're going to give you all the things, and here's how we're going to do it. And the price is going to be - and then you tell her this huge astronomical price that she was like, in her mind, she was like in the $3000 range and we just told her it's going to be $20,000.

Now, this is where everybody freaks out because they start to think that I've now asked Janet to give me $20,000 so I can go spend it. That is not what you have done. You've asked Janet to invest in her beautiful home that she will live in for the rest of her life, that she spends all of her time in, that she looks at all - we'll spend way more than that on our car that we spend less time in, right?

So when we start thinking, oh my gosh, that $20,000 is going to be in my bank account, forget it. You're never going to help Janet, and if you're not helping Janet, you're not going to get value back at all. But if you help her see that these curtains that she'll have in her house for the rest of her life, that investment and why it matters, and you really genuinely believe that and talk to her about it in that way, that's when selling starts to become fun. And that's when Janet is having fun too. So let's talk a little bit about that because I think a lot of people think we don't want to be sold to.

Stacey: Oh my gosh, I love buying shit.

Brooke: We love buying. Why do you guys say we don't like to be sold to? Do you know how much we love buying? How much fun is it for someone to sell you a new outfit that looks amazing on you? How fun is it for someone to sell you a brand-new car? A brand-new iPhone? Are you kidding me? It's so much fun. And when they're as excited as you are about what you're purchasing, there's nothing better.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%. I also think sometimes this comes from some people never buy stuff and they're not excited to buy stuff and that's coming from their own beliefs, their own money scarcity. But I do see that people struggle with that. They're like, well but I don't like to buy anything. I think if they really pressed themselves they could find something, but I love to buy stuff. Someone once asked me like, Stacey, you know sales so well, how are you - literally it's almost like when I walk into the store they have my face and my name on a clipboard and they've been waiting for me and they're like, oh this girl, she's going to buy some stuff. People are like, you're such an easy sell, how is that? And I'm like, because I love to buy, I love to be sold to and I love to participate in that commerce, in that exchange of value in humanity. In all different ways.

Brooke: And here's the thing. You can't nor should you try to sell something that you wouldn't be excited to buy.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%.

Brooke: Here's the thing. If I see the value in something, I would want to buy it for myself. And if I can't see the value in it, then there's no way I would want to buy it for myself or sell it to someone else. So when people say, I would never pay that for that, there's no way you're going to be able to sell it for that. It doesn't mean you have to walk away. You just have to understand yourself and get to the point where, would you spend $20,000 on curtains? Heck yes because I understand the value of that.

But here's the other thing. I don't like spending a lot of money on diamonds. I have friends that just want to go spend $20,000, $30,000 on diamonds. To me that's insane. I have my one diamond from my husband but I don't want to spend my money on diamonds. I could never sell diamonds, nor would I ever sell diamonds. But I have a super good friend that sells diamonds like crazy. She is obsessed with diamonds. When someone buys a diamond, she like, calls me like, "Oh my god, this person just left, they bought the most amazing diamond, I'm so jealous of this diamond that I just sold this person." It makes me so happy for the person that got to buy it and have that buying experience. The person that sold them the amazing thing.

Stacey: 100%. I just had a call with my mastermind and one of the things that kept coming up when we did their business model and plan and their packaging is that they're all doing like, bi-weekly or three times a month coaching and I kept asking them why and their reasons were never great. And they were really resistant to the change and I thought, well this will be fun. So I posted in our group and I said, what do you guys think about us only doing two to three calls a month? Why or why not?

They freaked out. They were like, what do you mean? You said it was weekly and all this stuff, and it was like, would you be excited to only do two calls a month? And they were like no, we want to work with you all of the time. And I'm like, yeah, your clients want to work with you all of the time too. Now, if you would have been all on board, totally fine, but sell what you would want to buy.

Brooke: That is so good. That is so brilliant. Here's the other thing. I watch some people sell things like, on a webinar or even when I watch a consult call and I'm like, listen, if you're nodding off during your own webinar, if you're nodding off during your own consult call, you are not excited enough about what you're selling. And I got to tell you guys, when you walk into a store and someone's like, "You need some help?"

Stacey: It's the worst.

Brooke: It's the worst. Or they're like, "Oh my god, look how cute you are, look at your short blonde hair, I have the perfect outfit for you. Immediately, come over here, look at this. Are you kidding me? Put this on immediately, I have to see it on you, you're so amazing," and I'm like, yes. Oh my god, this is so fun, right? All of a sudden, this person is like, you have to wear this. This just happened to me. You have to put this outfit on with your hair because it's the perfect - and I've just been waiting for someone you, tall, to come put this on.

Versus like, "Is there anything I can help you find today?" That is how some of you guys are selling the most important thing in the world. In my opinion, coaching is the most important investment I've ever made in my entire life. Bar none. There is nothing I have purchased that has been more important than coaching because my brain is the most valuable thing that I have. It is by far the most valuable thing that I have. So any money that I spend on making it better is the best investment because here's the thing. You think, well, should I buy coaching or should I buy a car? This is what I want to tell everyone. Buy the coaching and then you can buy 10 cars. How about that?

Stacey: 100%.

Brooke: All day.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%. I think a lot of people, specifically when we're talking about selling coaching or anything really, if you're struggling to sell it, I just did a podcast about this. It's maybe because you aren't living in the result of it yet. And people think like, they're in such a rush to sell coaching and they think they don't have time to sit there and do the work on themselves because I got to go out there and make money in my business because I decided to become a coach. And they don't see that that is the path to learning how to sell coaching in a really profound, powerful way is living in the result of it. And that is what makes you.

When you get massive results and you change your life with coaching, it's so easy to go out and pass it on at that point, and I think a lot of times people struggle because they don't have that impact yet. So they're kind of in the like, I don't know 100% if it works, so any time they're in that brain space and someone says I don't have the money or my husband just lost his job or whatever, they're like yeah, you're right, this might not be a good time, like, I don't know.

Brooke: You know what's so funny about when you say that is when someone says to me like, I don't know if I can afford coaching, my husband just lost his job, I'm like, are you kidding me? You and your husband both need me right now. We got to go. This is go time. This is when you need the coaching. And I don't know, I think that I've always had an abundant mindset when it comes to the value of coaching because I've been my first client. And I take myself as my own client very seriously and I devote the time and energy.

And kind of to circle this all the way around, I think the important thing for me to understand and to reconcile when I'm working with my students is I have these students that I've given the exact same tools to. I've given them all the same tactics, I've given them all the same technology. They are all living in the most amazing tie to be alive in the universe of universes, especially as life coaches. We're in an unregulated industry with the best tools in the world and the internet and so many people suffering.

Like, you can't make a recipe for success that's better than that. You have a huge demand, you have a very successful answer, and you have a way to reach them within seconds. Are you kidding me? I swear to god, my husband and I look at each other all the time, we're like, we won the time to be born lottery. Like seriously, for what we do. So I feel like the only difference between those two students that I've given the exact same tools to is belief, which means the only thing that they need to get better at is selling themselves.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%.

Brooke: Getting better at selling yourself on yourself and on the tools that you can create what you want in your life. So I say to people sometimes, I say, "It's possible that you haven't even started what's possible for you yet."

Stacey: That's so good.

Brooke: That you aren't even at the warm up yet. Are you willing to open he belief just enough to believe that? So let's end with this. Let's talk about this in these last minutes. Why do people resist believing in themselves? Why is it so challenging for people to believe that they can have abundance, that they can help people, that they can serve, that they're capable? What do you think?

Stacey: Yeah, I mean, I think it's because they're afraid of - I mean, at the very end of it, they're afraid of losing what they have. They're afraid of it could get worse. They're afraid that if they believe, something will go wrong.

Brooke: Which is the natural reaction of the brain to change.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%.

Brooke: So I was coaching someone on a coaching call today and she was basically saying that she just became a coach and she did her first Facebook Live and she like, completely froze. Turned on Facebook Live and she completely froze, and couldn't function and then just turned it off and of course made it mean that she's a failure and she's never going to succeed. Whatever. I'm like, that's just step one. That doesn't mean you've failed. That's just here we go, this is what we do.

And so are you willing? That's what the definition of an entrepreneur is, right? We're willing to risk who we are to be who we want to be. And it's very uncomfortable and very challenging, but if you learn the ability to coach yourself, which means - and all you're really doing when you're coaching yourself is selling yourself on a new model. Selling yourself on a new possibility. When you start selling yourself on you, you're going to be the hardest person you ever sell to.

If I can sell myself on my own possibility, Stacey, you're so easy to sell to. Because if I can do it, I'm like, you for sure could do it, and so can everybody else. And so when people say I'm good at selling things, they want to know the technique. They want to know the books that I read. And there's all of that, but none of it matters when you have 100% belief in the value that you're offering and you are committed to helping the other person understand that value. That is the secret, I think.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%. I was just also thinking about this is like, another thing that a lot of people worry about is selling someone and steering them wrong. You know, if you're in that scenario where you're still working on believing in yourself, and I just want to offer that there's very few people in the world that you come across that are willing to focus solely on you and serve you and help you from a place of love. And I don't feel like you can ever go wrong from that place.

Brooke: Never. I totally agree with you. I think this is what - if I'm a life coach and you're willing to get on the phone with me and talk about yourself and your mind for an hour every week for the next six weeks, that is more valuable than probably anything else you could take the time to do. Really. Taking the time for yourself to think about yourself, to think about what you think about, there is nothing more valuable.

And the final thing is you have to decide who decides what's valuable. Think about that, y'all. Think about who decides what we spend the most money on. Let's talk about diamonds, for example. Who decided that diamonds should be worth $50,000? Who decided that cubic zirconia shouldn't be, right? Often, we don't know the difference, y'all. I'm just saying.

But we decide what's valuable to us, we decide what we want to spend our money on. And sometimes we have to give people perspective, and I do this all the time with people. Like, they'll say to me, "I want to go to college," and I'll say, "Great, that's going to cost you 200K probably, if you want to go to this Ivy League college that you want to go to. Why do you want to go?" "Well, because it's valuable to go to college." But why?

Why is it valuable? And maybe it is valuable to that person, maybe they want to become a doctor, a rocket scientist or whatever, but you have to question what makes something valuable, and you get to decide for you. This is how you know you're doing it right. If someone else doesn't see the value in what you're offering, it means nothing about you ever. Period. It's just they don't value diamonds. They don't want the Mercedes for $10. They don't want the Mercedes for free. They just don't want a Mercedes. It could happen, but you're not going to take it personally because they don't want a Mercedes for free. It doesn’t mean the Mercedes is any less valuable.

Stacey: Yeah, 100%.

Brooke: Love it. Stacey, thank you. Now, there's going to be so many people that listen to this and they're like, what? That was challenging, I need...

Stacey: My brain hurts.

Brooke: It's true. It's true that they do need practice. I very rarely go nuts about other people's shit, but Stacey's is really, really awesome. And part of it is because she's worked on it so hard. We've worked on it together too, so hard over the past year. She has two amazing programs. Do you want to talk about them briefly?

Stacey: Yeah, for sure. So, the first one is the 2K for 2K and that is where I like to say I just walk you straight through every single thing you would ever need to know to get a client on the phone, close them, and make them your clients.

Brooke: It's for brand new coaches who want to make their first $2000, which is the hardest, by the way.

Stacey: Yeah. And I mean, I think it's for anybody who isn't selling, I think anybody who isn't selling 70% to 90%. If they're not converting at really high conversion rates, there's something they're missing in their sales process, and so I think it's for anybody that should want to raise their conversion rates. And then I have my 200K mastermind and in that one I really take my clients who are in the 20K mark and they want to go to 200K and we do that entire process and all of the pieces that go along with that. Really cleaning up their business, their business model, their business plan, their niches, all of those things. I actually...

Brooke: You said that so tenderly.

Stacey: And when you're first starting to sell, I don't think that that has to be your sticking point. I think a lot of people think they can't make money until they have all their program created and their business model and that's not necessarily true. You just have to have a belief in what you're offering and a desire to help people and you could make money right away.

Brooke: Yeah. And even more importantly than make money is like, you can just start helping people. This is the thing too. Making money is fun, y'all. You know me. I love to make some money. But when you start helping people and you start really seeing the value of our work in the world, that's when you're unstoppable. That's when you are so good at selling yourself and your clients on themselves and selling your clients on their own dreams. That's what we do on coaching sessions. We sell our clients on their own dreams. Over and over and over again, and telling them how capable they are and how amazing they are.

That is our job because their brain is telling them otherwise. And we have the perspective that we're able to do that. So I think that being able to be in an environment like Stacey creates where you are focused on this skillset and understanding that everybody is in the discomfort and in the rejection and in the experience of becoming a new version of themselves, because I think sometimes when we're doing this alone, we think, wait, this feels terrible, this must be wrong.

And we're like - Stacey's like, "No, no, you feel terrible, right on track. Everybody want to throw up? We're doing it right. Okay, good. Just keep going." And that's true for your first 2K, your first 20K, all the way up to 200K. And let the people who say that isn't realistic, let them just sit back and take notes. Watch us do it because Stacey and I are on a mission. We are going to help life coaches. All the life coaches that are willing to do this work make as much money as possible because the more successful life coaches we have in the world, the more successful people we have in the world because they are helping their clients change their lives. That is my mission is to be an example that that is possible for everyone.

Stacey: Yeah, and I think our mutual mission is that you can do all of that without being misaligned with your values and without misleading people and being manipulative and doing things - you can do it...

Brooke: It's the only way you can do it.

Stacey: Yeah.

Brooke: Be misaligned and do it...

Stacey: It's like, you can do it from a place where yeah, the client is loving it, you're loving it, and everybody feels value from the exchange.

Brooke: So much fun. You know what just occurred to me like, you've paid me so much money this year. Like, as my student, right? Isn't that crazy? And look at how much fun we're having.

Stacey: And how much money I've made.

Brooke: And how much money you've made because of that investment, but...

Stacey: And how much weight I've lost, let me just say.

Brooke: And how much weight you've lost, is that what you said?

Stacey: Yes. I'm in Self-Coaching Scholars too so I just did stop overeating and I'm like halfway through, I'm down two sizes.

Brooke: Oh my gosh, that's so fun. But here's the thing; I think this is a great reminder is like, you are my client. You're my customer. I sold you on coach training, and look at what that did. Aren't I glad that I didn't let you not having enough money be the reason why you didn't go...?

Stacey: Yes, I talk about that all of the time. Like, I'm so glad you didn't have a judgment about me and I'm so glad that you were just like - you really did create this space where I could just step into my own dreams. It's like, the first conversation I ever had with anybody that would believe I could be that big in the world. It's profound.

Brooke: Yes. And had I been caught up in my own head worried about she doesn't have any money, when am I going to get paid, or she's not all in all right now, I'm just like, listen, you're amazing, you're going to be amazing, figure this out and make this happen. And she did, and now look at how much fun we're having?

Stacey: And I wasn't just delivered to Brooke like I am now. I was a freaking hot mess. Literally, we had our sales call in the parking lot of a Walmart.

Brooke: You know what's so interesting about that. Don't mind us, y'all, podcast listeners. I have done, I'm going to say, no less than 1500 sales calls and there's two sales calls I remember. I remember yours and Katrina's. I was at my mom's house. We were on the phone, we didn't even have Zoom yet. I was on the phone, I remember I had my headset on, I was walking around on a summer day, right? Was it a summer day?

Stacey: Yeah. I was in Arkansas I think at the time. So I think it was a summer day. In a Walmart.

Brooke: That's a sacred moment for us, right? That was a turning point because I was willing to risk the rejection and get on the phone with you and sell you on yourself.

Stacey: And you were willing to go past me saying I have no idea how I'm going to come up with this money, I don't have the money at the time. You were willing to go past all of that.

Brooke: Yeah. So good. And I'm so thankful for myself for doing that for me and also for you and for all of the clients. The thousands of clients how that you're going to affect in the world. So for those of you who think that selling is just about you and your willingness, it's not. The worst thing that can happen is not that someone says no. The worst thing that could happen is that you never make the offer. Can you imagine if I never made the offer to Stacey, we never had the opportunity to have this podcast with you, you all.

So go out there and learn how to sell, my friends. Have an amazing week everybody. I'll talk to you next week. Bye.

Hey, if you enjoy listening to this podcast, you have to come check out Self-Coaching Scholars. It's my monthly coaching program where we take all this material and we apply it. We take it to the next level and we study it. Join me over at the Make sure you type in the I'd love to have you join me in Self-Coaching Scholars. See you there.

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