How good are you at selling? I don’t just mean in your business, I mean in your life and with yourself.
The skill of selling is super useful in every area of life. If you want to lose weight, you’ve got to sell yourself on not overeating. If you want to sit at the nicer table at a restaurant, you’ve got to sell the hostess on why it’s a good idea to seat you there.
My guest today is the one and only Stacey Boehman. Stacey is a master certified life and business coach who teaches life coaches how to sell.
From selling mops and cell phones to $15 million dollars worth of life coaching, Stacey is the person to talk to about sales.
In this episode, Stacey and I discuss why learning how to sell effectively is important for everyone, not just entrepreneurs. We talk about selling in terms of dating, how to sell yourself on being worthy, and how to get over your fear of rejection.
Check out the video of our conversation below!
What you will discover
- What sales truly is.
- How to get better at selling.
- Why knowing how to sell is so important.
- What circular dating is and why it works.
- How to sell yourself on a new belief.
- Why so many people don’t ask for what they want.
- How to overcome your fear of rejection.
Featured on the show
You are listening to The Life Coach School Podcast with Brooke Castillo, episode 383.
Welcome to The Life Coach School Podcast, where it’s all about real clients, real problems and real coaching. And now your host, Master Coach Instructor, Brooke Castillo.
Brooke: Hi my friends, welcome to the podcast today. I have Stacey Boehman with me today, who’s been on the podcast before. But I have been thinking so much about sales lately. I love sales.
Stacey: Me too.
Brooke: Stacey loves sales too. So I was thinking so much about sales lately, I’m like, I want to talk about this on the podcast, I need Stacey to come on, we need to talk about selling because everyone is always selling and you need to be good at selling. But before we get started, Stacey, will you just tell us a little bit about yourself?
Stacey: Yes, I am master certified life and business coach. And I just got married.
Brooke: Yay, congrats.
Stacey: Thank you. And I help life coaches make money by learning how to sell. So I have sold all of the things. I sold cellphones when I was in college, I sold mops in Walmart, and then I sold millions and millions of dollars of life coaching. 15 million to date. What?
Brooke: What? What is happening? I love millions of dollars. And think of all the people that you’ve helped sell millions of dollars too. That’s just the money you’ve made personally. That doesn’t even include all the sales that have been made because of you teaching people how to sell.
So I wanted to do a podcast for just the general listener. So I don’t want to do a podcast on how to sell life coaching. I’m sure we’ll reference that because we both do it and we both teach it. But the reason I started thinking about this is because I’ve been hanging out with my fiends Leila and Alex and Alex is a master salesman.
He can sell me on anything. It doesn’t even matter. Any restaurant, any activity, he’s so good at sales. He has me doing stuff, I’m like, what am I even doing? Why am I even having this conversation? Because he’s so good at it. And I’m also dating. I’m on the apps, dating.
And holy crap, that is sales. All of that is sales. And the other thing I was thinking about is selling yourself and how much of our self-coaching work is selling ideas and thoughts, concepts to ourselves to believe. So I just want to have an open conversation, I gave you nothing to prep, we have not pre-discussed this.
I have a general outline that I want to follow, but I just kind of want to let this conversation be something. I would have just called you up and been like, oh my gosh, we need to discuss this, tell me everything, but I know that everyone wants to listen in.
Because originally, I was just going to call Stacey and be like, okay, let’s talk about me selling myself during dating, on a dating app, and how complicated that is.
Stacey: It is not complicated. I know all the things about dating and selling.
Brooke: This will be so fun then. Okay, so first of all, I was trying to define what sales is and Alex and I were arguing about it. But I think selling is demonstrating value so you can create an exchange that works. How do you define it?
Stacey: I think it’s compelling people to take action.
Brooke: It’s so true.
Stacey: So simple.
Brooke: And you compel them to take action by demonstrating the value of that action.
Stacey: Yeah. My friends always make fun of me, when you’re talking about being at restaurants and going to different restaurants, my friends make fun of me because they feel like I read the menu very sensually. Like, the emphasis that I put on the words, the care that I put into them, how excited I get about the items, and they’re like, read it, read it to me Stacey, read it to me. But I just get so into…
Brooke: You sell it.
Stacey: Yeah. It’s so all-in that I compel them to want to order all the food and try all the things and take all the trips too. I’m very similar in that way.
Brooke: Yeah. Certain people - my friend Tonya is an amazing saleswoman. I was needing to get a new iPhone and she’s like, you have to get the XL one, like the big huge one. And this was when I had a tiny one. And I was like, no, actually, I want the smaller one because I want to be able to put it in my pocket.
She’s like, listen to me, she goes, “That is the most ridiculous reason to buy the smaller phone. The bigger phone is better in every single way. Simply buy it and thank me later.” And I was like, okay. So I’m trying to think about it, I was like, why did I go and buy that phone? I didn’t even really question her.
I had the one objection, she overcame it, and then it was done. And it was because I knew that she knew me. I knew that she understood what I wanted, what I needed, what I would like. And I trusted her. I mean, she didn’t even make any money on that sale.
But she sold me on it so quick and so fast and I was thinking like, wouldn’t it be great if all of our sales in our whole life, in our businesses, with our spouses, with our kids, with everyone were that easy? And so how do we make selling easier?
And this is for everyone that’s like - maybe you don’t even have a job. Maybe you’re a young kid. Maybe your job is in sales. How can we offer how to make selling easy because why is selling so important do you think? Being able to sell, having the skill.
Stacey: Yeah, I mean, it’s literally like getting your way in life. I just text two of my friends and I’m like, listen, I want to go to St. Barts for my birthday and I want to go to Aspen a month later in December, are you guys in?
Brooke: I mean, I’m in. You didn’t even ask me.
Stacey: Yeah, come. And one of my friends, it’s her birthday in December, and I’m like, you want to spend your birthday in Aspen, right? I mean, if you want me to, I’ll plan the whole thing, I mean, if you want to go somewhere else, we can.
It’s really when you don’t let there be another option in your mind, when you’re like, Aspen is obviously the best place to go for a winter birthday, there’s no other option, that’s what they think too. Like yeah, sounds amazing.
Brooke: Yeah. I do think the first thing is understanding your customer. Now, that customer may be your friend, may be your spouse, may be your kid, it may be the person that you are behind at line at Walmart that you want to get in front of them, whatever it is. And this is I think the most important thing about sales; understanding who they are and what they want is the first step. Okay, go ahead.
Stacey: Can I disagree with you but only a little bit?
Brooke: Of course, please.
Stacey: So I would say in the beginning, you may not know who your customer is so you have to be sold on the value and what you’re going to deliver, and then you have to go out and talk to a ton of people and practice selling that. And I think in that you learn who that person is.
Brooke: Who they are, right, yeah.
Stacey: But in the beginning, I do see a lot of people get really stuck in trying to figure out who the people are. But some people don’t have enough experience to be able to decide who that person is. They’re like, making it up.
Brooke: So true. So anyone who hasn’t dated recently, this is the exact thing. Because you can go out there and say, “Listen, I’m amazing. I’m an amazing buy. You should purchase me.” You can go sell yourself. But if you don’t understand who you’re selling to, if you don’t understand who it is that you’re trying to attract or trying to sell to, you will be very vague and vanilla and no one will be interested.
And I was laughing about this because this is what I teach coaches. It’s like, who exactly do you want to sell to and how will they know that you’re the right person for them? And so for me, I’ve been thinking about this, it’s so funny.
It’s like, instead of just saying, “Hi, I’m here, interested anyone? Give me a call.” Really understanding - I actually did a session with a coach and they were asking like, who specifically are you trying to target? And I was telling her, I’m like, you’re making me laugh because I feel like this is the exact conversation I have with my students about finding out who exactly - even if the only stipulation that you have is that they have the money to pay for life coaching. Or my friend Alex would just say if they have a pulse for Brooke Castillo.
Stacey: Yes. And I also think though, this is another fun one I learned. Actually, I did circular dating too so I’ve been…
Brooke: Explain to us what that is just for people who don’t know.
Stacey: Okay. So hold on, let me finish my thought and then I’ll explain.
Brooke: And then go back to it, okay.
Stacey: But one of the things you have to do is you also have to think about who the person you’re selling to, who you need to be for them that they would be excited about. So if you're thinking about a guy who’s really successful and put together and - you have to think about what’s the girl or the man, whoever, that he's attracted to.
And also make sure that you’re showing up that way. So it’s a little bit of both. Knowing the person that you want, but also being that person, knowing what that person wants.
Brooke: Yes, that’s so good. Okay, so for example, and I want to try and relate this to all types of sales, not just myself. The way that I was thinking about it was I really want to date someone who is very alpha, who is very determined, knows what they want, will come after me, will ask me out, will not take no for an answer if I’m kind of like, I don’t know. And I don’t mean don’t take no for an answer when I’m setting up a boundary but kind of like, if I’m hesitant about something superficial.
Stacey: Yeah, you want to be sold.
Brooke: Yeah, totally. I want them to…
Stacey: Sell me hard. Do it.
Brooke: Exactly. And so it was so funny, I was talking to a coach about this and they were saying like, don’t try and uncover that in the person. Let them demonstrate that. You show up and say hello, especially if you’re on Bumble or something like that.
You say hello, and then if they don’t do any of the things that you want them to do, they’re just not your person. And so I think for me, I think that’s super hard because I think a lot of times it’s like, well, I’m so good at sales that I try and sell myself to everyone. I’m like, what do you mean? I’m amazing, don’t you recognize this? What is happening?
But realizing that may not be your customer, that may not be your person that you’re trying to attract. So understanding who you want to attract I think is important. I think that’s different if you’re in a business situation and you’re afraid. So will you talk about that a little bit?
Stacey: Yeah, for sure. Okay, let me just back up with - because I don’t know if we do the same circular dating.
Brooke: I love that we’re having seven conversations at once. Let’s go.
Stacey: Let’s back up. Let me tell you the way that I learned circular dating because this will be super helpful. So here were the rules that I learned. This is actually how I met Neil. So you had to date 10 guys at the same time.
Brooke: Oh my goodness. Okay, no, I’m not doing this. This sounds challenging.
Stacey: I listened to your podcast and I immediately texted Aprille like, “What’s the circular dating you did? I need to know all about it.” So you have a circle of 10 guys and you always keep 10 people in your circle. And so we’re going to talk about what this does in a second, how that applies to your question, but you have to kick them out at any sign of a red flag. So you’re dating all these guys, you’re not super available to them, you treat them all the same, and…
Brooke: I’m going to be terrible at this.
Stacey: Let’s just say he shows up at - he says we’re having dinner on Friday night at eight and at 6:30 you’ve not heard from him. That might be a red flag for you, like I don’t like that, you just cut him loose. And you always have to have plans that are more exciting or as exciting as the date.
Stacey: So what it does is it keeps you really sufficient and knowing that okay, if this guy doesn’t show up, you have nine other guys. So you’re never ruminating on a guy, trying to fall in love with his potential, which I think is the same when you’re selling and when you're marketing.
If you are latched on to one person being your ideal client, like people will make lists of these are my dream clients. And I’m like, rip that up right now and throw it away. That just introduces bias into the conversation where you’ve predetermined who’s the best person. You’ve predetermined who isn’t the best people. And that’s the only thing you’re available for, it’s the only thing you're looking. And so you miss the whole rest of the world.
So if you’re selling, you miss all of the other people that could be clients if you’re thinking about the perfect clients. You miss all the amazing guys. We always joke because he’s not that way now, but I thought when I met him, he was very vanilla was my only way to describe it. Very like, Midwestern, simple, that’s not who he is at all. But I’m glad that I allowed that possibility and didn’t just say, oh, he’s not my type or whatever. So it just keeps you really…
Brooke: So 6’5 and rich isn’t a good thing to target?
Stacey: I think it’s possible to have 10 6’5 and rich guys.
Brooke: Okay, got it. So if you have a general sense of your market but you don't get too specific about it, so you ignore everybody else.
Stacey: So one of the rules is that you date anybody that asks you out, even if they’re not your type.
Brooke: What is happening?
Stacey: So you go out and you figure out why did I attract this person? What can I learn from this person? What can I find out that I do like about this person? What specifically do I not like about this person? So you do get really clear on who it is that you like. But also, it keeps you really open.
And then your energy when you’re dating 10 different people at the same time, or if you’re pursuing lots of different clients and you’re not just stuck on this one dream client, then you have this energy about you that’s really attractive and it just fuels other people asking you out, other people asking you what you…
Brooke: That is so interesting.
Stacey: It makes you very enticing.
Brooke: That’s so good. So how does this apply to other things that we want in our lives? In general, everyday things, that I think a lot of people feel like they may not be getting because they’re not good at selling. And I think what you said, getting what you want in life, I feel like I always get what I want and want what I get too.
So I think about this like in a hotel. If I go to a hotel and they’re like, we don’t have the room that you want, I always sell them on the fact that they do have it. Because I’ve stayed in it before and I know that they will give it. I’m able to sell people on these ideas of things that I want for myself. And I don’t think everyone else is as good at that as I am.
Stacey: This is what’s coming to me is I think that - this is what circular dating I think does is it keeps you out of - you teach being out of the A line, right? It keeps you out of the how and it keeps you committed to the result. I don’t know how love is going to come to me, I don’t know which specific guy it’s going to be out of these 10 guys, but one of them is going to be the finalist.
Brooke: I feel like we’re on The Bachelorette. I love it.
Stacey: The same could be true with any other thing you want in your life. It’s like, I’m going to keep going until I get what I want, I’m willing to try many different avenues. I’ve gotten a hotel upgrade, people that were in the room that I thought I was staying in, upgrade them so that I could stay in the room I wanted to stay in.
I’ve done that same thing. So also, I think it’s not just being so creative in your own strategies of getting what you want, but selling other people on why, again, why it’s the best for them or it’s the best for you or why it’s the best for everybody. Because it’s literally like, they could have one customer that’s fine with the room they have, and one that’s super unhappy. Or they could have a customer that’s super happy because they’re in the room they want, and another couple that’s super happy because they got upgraded for no reason.
Stacey: Now you have two people happy.
Brooke: So what do you think about this idea of believing in the result? So what you just said was believing in the result, believing in the thing that you want. So whether that’s selling 10 people into a coaching program, or it’s selling an employer on an idea of getting a raise, or selling - like you said, in a hotel room, someone on you getting the room that you want. What do you think about this idea that it depends on who believes the hardest?
Stacey: I always say a negotiation, the person that loses is the one that gives in to the discomfort first.
Brooke: Say more about that. That’s so good.
Stacey: Well, I’ll give you the best example. We’re in Lake Tahoe, I don’t know if you’ve been to Edgewater I think is the hotel or Edge-something. And it has these beautiful windows.
Brooke: Edgewood, yeah.
Stacey: You can eat at these tables that are right on the window and we get there, there’s one table left, it’s a four-person table, and there’s two different couples on each side. And I say we’ll take that table right there, and they’re like, oh, that’s reserved for four people.
And I was like, oh, did they ask specifically for that table? And they were like, well no, but we have to sit four people that are at that table, and she tried to dismiss me. And I said, well, but you have two other people right there and right there, so if you’re allowed to sit them, then you should be able to sit these people?
And I kept going, Neil was so uncomfortable. He was standing next to me; she was so annoyed. And I kept pushing her with just asking her questions and keep pointing out, but there are two people there, so clearly, we could sit there. And she’s like, well, there’s a party about to come in. And I’m like, but you could sit them at that table over there, that sits the same amount of people.
Brooke: You’re like, let me solve this for you.
Stacey: And eventually - so that’s what it is. It’s almost like making their job easier for them too when you - but you could do this, you could do that. And eventually she was like, let me go get my manager. And she came back, was like, right this way.
Brooke: I love it. Right this way. The other thing that I do all the time that makes my friends totally cringe and be uncomfortable is I do stuff we’re not supposed to do. I just sit down at a table when you’re supposed to have the hostess, or I bring my dogs into every restaurant.
And when they come and they say, “Oh, you can’t sit there,” or, “Oh, you can't have your dogs in here,” I’m like, oh no, it’s fine. They’re so confused. Because they have walked in establishing authority with me, like they're telling me. And I’m like, oh no, it’s fine, like I’m in charge. And they don't know what to do with it.
They’re like, oh, it is? I’m like, yeah, it's fine. But it’s not because you're not supposed to. I’m like, no, it’s absolutely fine. And then sometimes they walk away, they’re confused, sometimes they get their manager. Their manager comes, I’m like oh no, this is fine that my dogs are here, they’re not going to move, they’re not going to do anything.
I mean, if you bring them water, they’re never even going to get up. And so many times they’re like okay, okay, okay. So I do think it’s establishing that authority. And one of the things that - this is something I really wanted to touch on.
One of the things that’s so important in sales is that authority and especially - one of the things I love about my personality and how people are intimidated by me sometimes because I’m so direct and I’m so loud and I’m so in your face, I always say I love this skillset that I have to be that way.
So when I tell my clients how awesome they are, they believe me. When I tell them that their beliefs are garbage, or I tell them that they can achieve something, or I tell them that they’re worthy, they believe me because I’m selling them on themselves because I’ve established that authority and that certainty.
Come at something with certainty, there’s a desire to be sold on yourself. And that's the other thing; you and I have talked about this before a lot is like, I want to be sold. I want to be sold on things. I love it.
Stacey: I don’t love being pushed and convinced. I love being sold.
Brooke: What’s the difference?
Stacey: Okay, so here’s another great example. I love giving stories of examples. We were shopping on Rodeo Drive and we go into Dior, which I love Dior. And I try on this leopard sweater, this leather skirt, the outfit’s like $7000. And I'm like, I don’t know, I want to get pregnant, by the time it’s fall I don’t know if I'm going to be able to wear this.
But I really loved it and the guy took the tactic of well, you know Dior, if you don't take it now, you’re going to be really disappointed when it sells out. You just wouldn’t want to call me and be disappointed when I tell you we don’t have it anymore. And it turned me so off. I was like, I don't want that. That feels…
Brooke: That’s so funny. I could have sold you on that so quick.
Stacey: Yeah, for sure.
Brooke: I’d have been like, girl, you are not walking out of here without that, that is the most amazing thing I’ve ever seen you wear in your life, you can’t not be without it.
Stacey: Yes, I want my people to say that.
Brooke: I think that’s why kind of understanding who you’re dealing with is super helpful. I wanted to buy the Porsche, the new electric Porsche.
Stacey: Yes, I remember this story.
Brooke: It’s so sexy to look at. I don’t even know how expensive it is, but it’s like a home. It’s so expensive. But they’re so fancy that they come to your house for the test drive. So the guy drives it to my house, it takes my breath away, this car is so beautiful.
And the guy comes in and he’s like, do you want to go for a test drive? And I said sure. And so he spent no time getting to know me, didn’t ask me any questions, nothing. He just presumed that I would want to know what he would want to tell me.
And he proceeded to tell me things that I had no idea what he was talking about. It doesn’t have an engine, like this car, because it’s electric, but it has so many complicated features that he was telling me about that all I cared about was how pretty this car was.
All he had to do was take a picture of me next to it and I would have bought it, I’m not even exaggerating. But instead, he put me in the car and drove so fast. I drive like a grandma. I seriously am going to buy this Porsche and drive like a grandma.
I drive slow; my kids like, yell at me, I’m not a good driver, I can’t figure out where I’m going. And this guy is driving literally 100 miles an hour, making me so car sick. He’s showing me how the car turns on all four wheels.
Stacey: Oh, I do not like it when they do that.
Brooke: In a circle. I was so sick. And he’s like, do you want to drive? I’m like, no, I just need to get out of this car right now. And so, I get out and he’s like, what do you think? Isn’t it amazing? Didn’t you like this torque thing, didn’t you like this thing? And I was like, actually, he made me feel so inadequate because I didn’t know what he was talking about.
And I’m like, I’m going to buy this car with all these features that I don’t even know what they are? This is so out of my league. And so, I ended up not buying the car. He talked me out of it. Now, selling me on it would have been like, okay, what makes you interested in this car in the first place? One question.
Stacey: When you’re selling something expensive, you can’t sell it like you would sell it to everyone, to the masses. You have to get to know the person. The guy at Dior had been like - if he had taken the time to get to know me at all, you can’t sell me with scarcity because I have everything. So I don’t feel the scarce of like, okay, it’s going to sell out but something else is going to come in that I’m going to love too.
On Rodeo Drive, when you have all those tourists coming in, you can easily sell them on a not going to be able to get this thing. But I have a couple of Dior people that I can email any time and get on consignment. It’s not the same. So he didn’t take the time to get to know me, your guy didn’t take the time to get to know you.
Brooke: And I think on these dating apps, when somebody says to me like, why are you on Bumble? What are you interested in? What do you want? And I think it’s such a good first question because the answers will help you understand okay, this is where this person’s coming from.
So first of all, you kind of understand, is this person someone that I want to keep speaking with? Are we in this for the same thing? But also, if you’re really interested in them, you can speak to what it is they desire. And it’s just one question.
And so, I think when we’re doing sales to anyone, whether it’s the lady behind the counter or the person you want to cut in line with, anything, you can just be like, hey, are you in a hurry? Are you needing to pay for this really quick? Would you mind if I went in front of you? Here’s my situation. Selling them by understanding where they’re coming from.
Like, oh my gosh, I appreciate that you’re such a giving, loving, amazing person, I’ll totally pay it forward, whatever. And if someone’s in a hurry, they’re not going to care. And so just I think asking questions, understanding who your audience is, and then demonstrating the value of what you have.
So I want to talk about this with selling ourselves on new beliefs. So if we look at ourselves as our own customer, we look at ourselves as our own person that is purchasing a new belief to believe, and we’re also the seller, we’re also selling ourselves, and there’s so many objections, right?
So if I have a belief system, I want to make 100 million dollars, immediately, all my own objections come up. That’s going to be hard, that’s going to be so much work, you don’t know how to do that, that’s a lot of taxes you’re going to have to pay, how are you going to figure that out? Are you sure you want to say that publicly?
Every single thing that comes up. And so how do we come back and sell ourselves on an idea, to believe that idea, to have the willingness to give up all of our doubt, all of our frustration seems like something we would want to do but we don’t. We hold on to our beliefs, and it’s the same when I’m selling people on coaching or Self-Coaching Scholars.
It’s like, I have to help them overcome their own doubt to believe that this product will work for them, and it’s the same for me. When I’m selling myself on a belief, I have to overcome all my own doubt to believe in the possibility of what this thought is. So do you have any suggestions on how we can help ourselves do that?
Stacey: Yeah, 100% because I had to do this when we started 2K for 2K. You remember I was like, what? This name doesn’t make any sense, no one is going to buy this, coaches don’t want to make their first 2K, they want to make 100K. I had so much resistance to it and I teach my students this as well when they create new things, your brain is always - it’s like your brain is used to turning left and you have to make it to turn right.
So it’s used to always going to what you don't know, why it won’t work, why it’s going to be hard, all the things you’re missing, and I like to take stock. How could I be on board with this? Why do I think this could be a good idea? What about it do I like already? What do I know for sure?
And then I just start listing out all the things that I know, all the areas where I’m on board and I already could believe that. One of them was like, I trust Brooke, she wouldn’t give me an idea that didn’t work, and I know I’m really good at selling and I know it’s my job to get them on board with why they want to make their first 2K.
And I think one thought was like, well, but also some of them spin out on 100K and they don’t have realistic actions for people to take. Just started thinking about it from a different angle. And it’s like you create that little window into your brain and more starts to open up and more. It’s just wedging space. And you have to keep at it.
Brooke: I love that. I think for me, one of the things that I do when I’m selling someone is you have to overcome - if I say to you, “Hey Stacey, I want you to sign up for coach training, it’s going to take six months for you to do it.” And you’re like, “Oh, but I’m really busy, I’m trying to get pregnant, I just got married,” I need to understand all of your objections, all of your reasons for why you’re not buying so I can give you reasons that are better than those for buying.
And that’s what we have to do with ourselves. It’s like, you could go make 100 million dollars, there’s all my objections. But exactly what you were saying, then I’m like, but if you do, you’re going to inspire so many people, and if you do, you’ll be able to teach other people what you’ve done, and this will be the biggest belief that you’ve ever demonstrated the efficiency and the efficacy of the Model with. It’ll be very hard for people to argue that the Model doesn’t work if I go make 100 million dollars.
Stacey: So right there, you’re creating desire too. I like to think of it as mining for the information I already have or the knowledge and experience I already have, but also that’s so beautiful. Just saying why would I even want to attempt this, why would I want, just creating that desire will automatically also make your brain work harder for you.
Brooke: Yes. And believing in the possibility of that. And I think I often say to my students that - our new coaches that are trying to go out there and make offers, and even many of my students who aren’t coaches but are just trying to sell things, it’s like, you can't make it about you. You can’t make the sell about you. The sell has to be about offering value to the person.
Well, when you’re coaching yourself, it’s the same thing. You have to advocate for the best version of yourself as yourself. So you have the objector and the salesperson in your own self. And the better you are at selling other people, the more you practice selling, the more you do it, the better you’re going to be at selling yourself on you.
And I think that is one of the reasons - people are like, you could sell anything to anyone. I’m like, it’s because I had to sell myself when I hated myself. I had to sell myself on myself. And I think most of us can agree I did a pretty good job on that.
I went from completely hating myself to completely loving myself. And I sell myself all the time on myself with just positive energy, this is why you’re valuable, Brooke, this is why you matter, this is why this is important. So if we’re going to teach some skills in that area, do you have just some general sales ideas that we may be able to apply to ourselves?
Stacey: To selling ourselves on our beliefs?
Brooke: Yeah. And just selling ourselves on ourselves, right?
Stacey: Yeah, I mean, I think it also just goes back to what you always teach about. It’s the most practiced thought. So how often - for me, I’m a big list person but I teach my students all the time, if you’re trying to sell yourself on - I’m going to bring it back to coaching, but the value of coaching, every morning, get up and write the value of coaching and do that every day for 30 days straight.
And make yourself answer it differently each time. I did this for gratitude. I remember being in a place where I just was so insufficient and very victim-y. And I used to think gratitude was complete crap. And then I would every single day sit down, and I could only write something down if I meant it, if I believed it.
It wasn’t like saying mantras. A lot of people try to believe new things that way. They just try to repeat the same thing over and over to themselves without the feeling behind it. For me, I have to write it down and I have to believe it. I have to take it seriously. I have to feel it in my body, otherwise it can’t go on the paper. And I have to spend the time no matter how long it takes to fill that paper up.
And I think that you could do that with anything. If you were a young kid selling lawnmower service, going door to door, right? You could write down every day, why does someone in this neighborhood need my lawn care services? What are all the reasons they might need it? What are all the ways I can help them? What’s all the value they’ll get from it? What time could they get back and use for something else?
Just exploring that over and over and over to where when you walk up to the door and you knock, and they say I mow my own lawn, you’re like no, but when’s the next time you're going to be on vacation? You’re going to need someone then, right?
Brooke: Yes, that’s so good.
Stacey: You’re already prepared.
Brooke: Yeah, so one of the things that I could do is write down all of the reasons why someone would want to date me. And see like - this is for anyone who’s dating. How many of those reasons do I actually believe? And when I say believe, the way that you find out if you really believe something is when you read it, the feeling will be activated inside of you.
Not this is why they should want to, or this is what they may think, but this is what I really believe about me. And the same thing with my product. Why would someone really benefit from joining Self-Coaching Scholars? What are all the reasons that I genuinely believe?
That level of certainty creates a level of confidence when you're talking to someone that I think is so attractive. I’m talking to men, this is a perfect example, when I’m talking to men that want me to date them, the more confident they are, the more certain they are, they’re like, yeah, I don't look like Brad Pitt but I’m pretty funny, and I’m like oh right, I’m like, how funny because I love to laugh.
And then they say something funny, I’m just like, all of a sudden what I thought was important now isn’t, and this other thing is. It’s because they’ve developed that certainty. And I think one of the things we miss out on is enjoying our own certainty about ourselves. And so if you want to get better at selling, sell you on you all the time.
Stacey: And I do think when you’re in that - if you’ve done the list or however you get into that space where you find the thoughts that you already believe without a lot of effort, I think that it’s also easier when you’re in that emotion in your body to look at beliefs you want to believe that you don’t yet believe when you’re in the feeling of it, which I think a lot of people try to believe something they don’t believe from a place of not having gotten themselves in the feeling, vibration, the energy, whatever you want to call it.
They haven’t gotten themselves there first, so they’re already starting at the feeling of not belief, and then trying to add a new thought they don’t believe on top of that emotion. It makes it so hard.
Brooke: That’s so interesting. I was talking my friend Ryan the other day and he wants to make a certain amount of money, and to me, it’s such a no-brainer for him. I’m just like, are you serious? You should have made this last week, I don’t even understand.
In his mind, he’s so tripped up on not believing something that I believe so deeply when I see him. And I think so often, that’s a skill that will help you in sales so much. For example, I mean, you probably deal with this all the time now that I think about it.
You’re dealing with people who don’t believe they can make 100K, which is insane. And you’re like, I believe it so hard for you, there’s no doubt in my mind that this actually is true for the person that you’re looking at. And then selling them on that belief because you believe it.
It’s very hard to sell someone on a belief in themselves if you don’t believe it with them as a coach. If I don’t believe you’re worthy, it’s going to be very hard for me to sell you on being worthy for yourself.
Stacey: I think when you don’t believe it, you work harder as the salesperson. When you’re not in full belief, you just work much harder.
Brooke: That’s when you try to convince, right?
Stacey: Yeah, and people feel it. Even with your coaching though, you may not be convincing but you just might be - it’s a little convincing but you’re just working so much harder for your client and coaches will tell me, “I had eight calls today, I’m exhausted.”
And what that tells me is they worked so hard because they didn’t fully believe in their clients’ results, versus it takes me no energy at all because I believe in people’s capacity to change. So I’m not getting worked up trying to convince them, talk to them, and coach them really hard and believe it myself. I’m not having to believe it myself and then go help them believe it. I’m already there. So it’s just a little bit of effort with them.
Brooke: Yeah. And listen, I think the most important work you can do on developing this skill in all areas of your life, to be able to get what you want in life is to sell yourself on yourself. Because listen, you will always be your hardest sell. You always have so many objections, you’ll always be like, I don’t believe you because you’re you, because you’re biased about you.
But what happened for me when you were talking is like, when I actually sold myself on being worthy, I am 100% worthy and I always have been, I was sold so completely that I recognized that that was the absolute truth of what it was for me to be human. And now I can’t not see it in every other human that I’m with.
So even though that work in the beginning might have seemed self-indulgent or selfish or not useful, I think it ended up changing so many people’s lives. And so I think that applies to us in terms of our own self-worth but also if you are trying to sell anything, you have to sell yourself on it first. So if you want to sell someone…
Stacey: 100,000 different ways.
Brooke: Exactly. If you want to sell someone on having the dogs, I took the dogs in the gym and I had to think to myself, is it okay to take dogs in a gym? I’m like, I guess so, as long as they’re not going to get hit by a weight, so I’ll just keep them really close to me. I’m like, yeah, this is a great idea.
So I sold myself on it and then I went in there and they’re like, oh, I don’t know about the dogs in the gym. I’m like, oh, it’s fine. I explained to them how they run - it’s fine. And it totally was fine. My dogs were just sitting in the corner. I had to take a minute because if I hadn't taken the time to sell myself on it first, when I went in there, when they said it, I would have been like, oh okay, and I would have left. And I wouldn’t have been able to work out.
So if you’re trying to sell a package, your own coaching, you’re trying to sell a dress in Dior, whatever it is you’re trying to sell, you have to be sold on it being incredibly valuable first.
Stacey: Yeah. And then the other person wanting it. If he had just believed I wanted that and was going to buy it, when I had said I don’t know, he would have been like, girl, you’re definitely buying that and we both know it. He would have been like, we both know it, you’re getting it, and I’d be like you’re right.
Brooke: Yeah. So his level of certainty and then understanding I think too, is this really valuable for this person? Is this really okay? With the dogs, I knew it was totally okay. I wasn’t like, convincing them that it was okay and then putting myself or my dogs in danger, right? I think that’s the other thing, coming from that place of truth.
Okay, what do you think about this argument? I’m kind of - I’m spinning a little bit. What do you think about the idea that good salespeople are born, not made?
Stacey: I mean, I obviously teach this so I think it’s - I don’t know if I’m allowed to cuss.
Brooke: You’re allowed to curse.
Stacey: It’s bullshit.
Brooke: Okay, tell me why.
Stacey: It’s a practice. That would be the same as saying people are just born with the ability to change their thoughts or not.
Brooke: You’re either good at changing your thoughts or you’re not.
Stacey: Right, no, there’s a skill to changing thoughts. And selling is changing your thoughts, changing somebody else’s thoughts. So there’s a skill. You just have to be willing to practice it. The person that’s the best at selling is just the more practiced at it.
Brooke: And the more practiced at it is the person that’s willing to fail more. That’s it. The more willing you are to fail, the more you’re going to practice, the more you’re going to get better, the better salesperson you’re going to be. Being rejected, let’s talk about that for a minute.
So many people don’t ask for what they want, they would never take their dogs in a gym, they would never ask for a sell, they would never do online dating, they would never go in that because there’s such a high risk of rejection.
Stacey: Most people won’t even ask for the table they want at a restaurant.
Brooke: Or send their food back if it’s cold.
Stacey: They’re like, oh my gosh, no, we couldn’t possibly do that.
Brooke: So what do you think is the best way to overcome the fear of rejection, to overcome the fear of being told no?
Stacey: I want to say you just have to be willing to do it. You’ve taught that. You have to be willing to go out and just get a bunch of nos. You have to test it out. You have no idea what it’s going to be like. It’s like you can imagine what it will feel like, and then you can do it. It’s always going to be so much less than you imagined for the most part.
Brooke: But still, I think the other piece of that, I love that you said that but I think the other piece of it is it’s going to be awful and who cares? It’s so worth it.
Stacey: Not having what you want also sucks.
Brooke: Right. But being rejected, nobody wants to be rejected. Nobody wants to be told I don't want to date you, or I don’t want to hire you, or I don’t want to let your dogs in here or whatever it is that you’re trying to do. I know I’m going to get so many letters about me taking dogs in restaurants. I hear you; I’m still going to keep doing it.
It doesn’t feel good, right? But if you’re willing to experience that feeling, if you’re willing to process the rejection, the benefit of that, there’s two pieces of it. Not only do you get better at feeling your emotions, not only do you develop the skill of being able to handle rejections so you encourage it more. I mean, you encourage yourself doing it more.
You get bigger goals and you get stronger. Because if rejection is the only thing between you and your dreams, which for most of you it is, there’s nothing you can’t have. There’s nothing you can’t do. And even the whole time - I’m thinking about situations where maybe you’ve asked for something and you’ve really wanted something, I was thinking about at the pool when you wanted to have that whole space to yourself at the pool and you couldn’t get it and you sold, you tried, you went after and you couldn’t get it, that sucks.
Especially if you’re really good at selling and you’re used to getting what you want, there’s still going to be times when you’re going to ask for what you want emphatically and you’re not going to get what you want. And it’s going to feel terrible, and that’s part of the deal. It’s okay. It doesn’t mean I’m going to go hide.
I’ve had so many people tell me I just don’t date anymore; I just don’t go on the apps. You look like you’re having the time of your life, Brooke, I’m just not that kind of person. And what they’re really saying is I just don’t want to put myself in harm’s way.
Stacey: But it’s only harm’s way if you’re taking it personal. The only time I ever have an experience where I feel rejected or feel negative after being told no is because I’ve made it mean something about me.
Stacey: Otherwise, it doesn’t bother me at all. It’s all about them, right? Even if someone’s telling me no and I don't want to be told no, I can make it mean something terrible, they don’t respect me, they don’t - if the pool people, they don’t respect me as a customer, or I can say they just have no experience with this. They’ve never been faced with this situation, they don’t know how to handle it, they’re overwhelmed, they have too many people and not enough staff, and this is just what’s happening.
Brooke: That’s how I am with dating. I’m like, what, you don’t like peaches? Who doesn’t like peaches? I guess some people don’t like peaches. And it’s the same with Life Coach School. If some people just don’t like life coaching, it’s insane to me.
Stacey: And the other thing is I spent a lot of time thinking when I do fail, if I don’t get what I want, I spend a lot of time thinking about how I could have approached it differently, how I could have been a little bit better about it. And I can always find something that I could have done better, and the more I’m able to do that, the less it stings too. Like oh, I’m going to get that next time for sure.
Brooke: That’s so good. So when you’re asking for a sale and you don’t get it, the person doesn’t sign up - the thing that gets me the most, I mean, I don’t do a lot of one-on-one sales anymore, but the thing that gets me the most is when I’m talking to someone and I know that my product will change their life forever. And I don’t sell them on it, I feel like I haven’t sold them on themselves. Haven’t sold them on their own potential. That’s when it really…
Stacey: I always feel like I let them down.
Brooke: Yes, which feels very different than rejection. And it’s what you’re saying. I don’t make it about me. Like oh, I’m not good enough. I mean, I clearly wasn’t good enough in that sale to sell them on themselves and that’s on me, but I don’t make it like I’m a bad person, I’m not good enough, I should stop doing this.
Stacey: It’s got to be I’m not skilled enough. One of the ways that I taught myself how to do consultations, and this is for anyone that sells anything, if you do a sales call, whether it’s in person or on the phone, think about if you would be willing to be really good at selling, if you would be willing after every conversation to write the entire conversation out.
Stacey: Everything you can remember that they said and you said, and go through and look for where you didn’t say something that you could have said, didn’t stand strong enough, where you got caught, where you were like, I didn’t know what to say after this, I didn’t know how to react to this. And then be willing to sit and think about that. Like, how would I do that differently next time with that person specifically or with another person? How would I address this in the future? I did that for all of my early calls and that’s what’s made me so good at selling.
Brooke: That is so good. Yeah, being able to demonstrate the value for their own sake is how I think about it. When I’m talking to my team about sales and marketing, I’m like, our job is to show people their amazingness and we do that through our products. And if we can’t get them to buy our products, they’re never going to find out how truly amazing they are.
Because most people don’t sign up because of their own self-doubt for my products. And I think that that’s true on a lot of things that people don’t purchase for themselves, or don’t do for themselves. And so when you bring that back to selling yourself on yourself, as being one of the practices that you can do, I love your idea actually.
It’s like, when you aren’t sold on the idea that this protocol will serve you, or that making 10 offers today will serve you, when you let yourself down, instead of just beating yourself up, sitting down and being like, okay, what went on in my head in terms of noise that made me let myself down today?
And instead of beating yourself up about it, you can be like, what’s the matter, love? What happened there? What can I understand so I can sell myself more on it later? I’m always selling myself on my calendar. I’m like, girl, we’re going to feel so good when this day is done, you go get it, instead of I don’t want to do this, I’m going to lay around, that sort of thing.
Stacey: I teach an evaluation process and you’ve taught this before I’m sure, that getting really specific every single time about what works, what doesn’t work, and what you’re going to go and do differently. And when you do that enough times with your sales calls or with anything that you’re selling, you do that enough, what will happen is when you’re talking to people in real time, you will start predicting what they’re about to say and where they’re going to have an objection and you’ll be able to address that ahead of time. The way I think about it is like, you’re a step ahead in the conversation.
Brooke: So good. And what if you could do that with yourself? Like I’m imagining my clients who want to sell themselves on not eating food. That’s a sales process. It’s like, let’s go get some cheesecake, no - like, how do you make the sale of feeling your feelings instead of having cheesecake? That’s the hardest sale you’re ever going to make.
If you can do that with yourself consistently, then selling other people because - and then if you don't do it - I love this idea. If you don’t do it, if you give in and you don’t buy what you’re selling, the value of a life without that, then you go back and analyze what happened there.
Stacey: And what you’re going to do differently next time, how you’re going to handle it specifically. It just makes you so sharp. And when you have rehearsed it so many times in your head after the fact, also your brain is so free in the moment, whether it’s with yourself or with someone else, you just have so much more free space in your brain to hear that other little voice that’s like, don’t eat it. Really amazing, and you’re going to feel really great at that party, or whatever it is.
Brooke: Or you’re going to get better at processing emotion, which is the superpower that we all want to have, because that’s how you can write your ticket. So I think for so many of you, I’ve heard so many of you say to me, “I’m just not good at sales.”
You have to, first of all, stop saying that. Don’t ever say that again. Because you’re always selling something in your life. And you’re probably good in one area. And if you think about that one area of your life where you always insist on getting your way, you can build from that. Study like, where is it? For me, it’s sitting in the front seat because I get carsick. I mean, there’s lots of areas where…
Stacey: I don’t even give people another option.
Brooke: This is just what’s happening. So where is it in your life that you get what you want? Maybe it’s what time dinner is, maybe it’s you have to wear a shirt at the table, maybe it’s everyone makes their bed or nobody uses foul language or whatever. Where are you already good at selling yourself and where are you already good at selling other people? And then build from that.
Stacey: Understand why that you’re so good at it. What are the beliefs that you have when you think about it and then when you go to sell other people on it? Or go to get your way, how are you able to do that?
Brooke: Yeah, so good. Okay, what else do you want to say about selling before we let the people go?
Stacey: There’s so many things. We didn’t even talk about objections.
Brooke: Oh my gosh. Well, objections are really just like, all of the obstacles in between me and the sale, right? All the reasons I give you as to why I shouldn’t purchase the thing, why I shouldn’t date you, why I shouldn’t let you have the dogs in the restaurant, right? So how do you deal with them? Let’s talk about it briefly.
Stacey: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a couple of ways. I think number one, I love to agree with people, like, it’s really expensive.
Brooke: You’re like, hell yeah it is. It’s Life Coach School, baby.
Stacey: It’s also really expensive to be where you’re at. How is that true? And the big thing that I think about with objections that I think people do wrong is they talk too much. Their brain hears the objection, the response, and then they try to think of everything that they could say around that one thing.
“I don’t have the time.” Okay, let me tell you all the things that is true about your time, right? Instead of saying the one thing, yeah, it is really expensive, but also isn’t it really expensive to be where you’re at? How is that true?
Brooke: Or I don’t have the time. A lot of times I’ll say to someone, they’ll give me an objection, they’ll say like, I don’t have the time, I’ll say tell me. Basically, tell me more. You don’t have the time. And they literally talk themselves out of it because it’s always a lie.
You make time for things that are valuable. So when someone says they don’t have the time or it’s too expensive, they’re just not seeing the value in what you have to offer. So by you understanding why they’re not valuing it, then you can overcome that.
And especially if you already believe in it. Someone says I don’t have the time, you say tell me, it’s like, well, I have this going on and this going on, and well, I guess I do, I mean, I could do it in the evening, I guess. It’s crazy if you just keep your mouth shut that people will talk themselves into.
And I’ve had someone say that to me before where they said, “Wow, that’s expensive.” And I didn’t say anything. And they said, “So where do I sign up?” It wasn’t even an objection. It was just a commentary. They were just making note. And so ever since that, I’m always like, yeah, it’s Life Coach School, of course it’s expensive. That doesn’t mean we don’t buy it.
Stacey: Yeah, you’ve got to say nothing or one thing and give the person space to digest. I think we just try to say too many things because the immediate thing is you get the objection and you can either go into what it means about you, what it means about them. One’s going to make you feel terrible and catch your breath and make your stomach drop and then you’re going to want to get out of the discomfort as soon as possible, or one of them is going to make you curious and intrigued.
Brooke: So good. Okay, my last piece of advice on sales and then I’ll let you do one is always assume that they want it, no matter what they say. And it is your job to help them get what they want. Because the reason they’re on the call with you, the reason they swiped right on you, the reason they even let you in the restaurant with the dogs is they want you to be there.
They want what you want. You just have to help them understand how to get what they want and how to overcome their own objections. Instead of seeing it as you against them, it’s you for them.
Stacey: Yeah, and you kind of have fun. It’s the most simple thing, but you can’t sell people on need. Need is like selling people toilet paper. Nobody wants to go out to the store and buy it. It’s so boring, right? You have to have fun. You have to sell people based on desire. It doesn’t matter what you’re selling them, it has to be based on desire, you have to have fun. If they have fun, they’re going to want to buy.
Brooke: So good. Okay, if I’m a life coach and I want to work with you, what do I do Stacey Boehman?
Stacey: You can go to staceyboehman.com.
Brooke: How do we spell Boehman?
Brooke: Okay, and I go there and I can sign up. You have a program that has the best title that I’ve ever heard. It’s called 2K for 2K. What it means is you pay 2K to get into the program, but she guarantees that you make that money back. So you pay 2K and you get 2K back. It’s a no-brainer. If you don’t sign up for it, it makes no sense.
Stacey: It’s literally like, you pay $2000 to learn how to sell and make money for the rest of your life and to enjoy it. It’s a no-brainer.
Brooke: And you get the $2000 back from a client. Come on, people. If you’re a life coach, go check out Stacey Boehman. She also has a program if you want to make 200K. I mean, her stuff is the best. I am a huge fan obviously and she’s a very good friend of mine, but her stuff is very, very, very good.
So if you want to learn more about selling, marketing, making money, staceyboehman.com. Thank you for coming on the podcast. This was so fun. I love talking to you. Alright my friends, have a beautiful week. I love you all. Bye.
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