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Did you know there’s something even better than happiness?

According to my guest today, there is.

Jody Moore is a certified life coach and member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. She’s also the author of a new book, Better Than Happy: Connecting with Divinity Through Conscious Thinking.

No matter what you believe in, everyone can benefit from practicing self-compassion and conscious thinking.

And doing so can bring you an experience that’s even better than being happy.

In this episode, Jody and I discuss her new book, the writing process, and how the Model can integrate with faith. Coaching and religion can support each other, and Jody shares how her faith has actually deepened since learning about thought work.

Check out the video of our conversation below!

What you will discover

  • What Jody believes is better than happy.
  • How Jody integrates the Model with her faith.
  • What Jody hopes you learn from her book.
  • How the Model can help you forgive.
  • Why it’s important to separate culture from doctrine.

Featured on the show

Episode Transcript

You are listening to The Life Coach School Podcast with Brooke Castillo episode number 406.

Welcome to The Life Coach School Podcast, where it’s all about real clients, real problems and real coaching. And now your host, Master Coach Instructor, Brooke Castillo.

Brooke: We started talking before we started recording and I was afraid that all the best stuff would not make it in.

Jody: We don’t want that.

Brooke: So, we’re going to chat for just a second. It’s me and Jody Moore.

Jody: Okay, let’s do it.

Brooke: We’re going to catch up. She wrote an amazing book called Better Than Happy and I asked her what her parents thought of it. So, what did your dad say?

Jody: I said – well, my dad, he listened to it on Audible and he said, “That was actually a really good book.”

Brooke: I like it when they’re surprised. They’re like, “Wow, okay…”

Jody: No, my dad’s very supportive of me. We just have this little joke going back and forth where he likes to pretend I’m not that impressive. And I like it, actually.

Brooke: We do need people like that in our lives.

Jody: Yeah, we need people who are not impressed by us. It’s nice.

Brooke: My kid, Christian, he’s like, “You’re an influencer, mom, we get it.” He is so underwhelmed by everything.

Jody: Oh yeah, my kids are not impressed at all. Which is how you want it. It’s perfect.

Brooke: I do have to tell you something too that’s funny. I hate podcasts where people just chat in the beginning.

Jody: Pavel can edit out anything boring.

Brooke: Don’t edit any of it, Pavel, because I never do it and people will love this part. But you told me a long time ago that – I think it was one of your kids was in a car and they were playing rap music and they were, like, swearing…

Jody: This was Natalie’s kids. But yes, keep going.

Brooke: Oh Natalie’s kids, your niece, yeah, it was like, “Oh no, it’s fine, we’re used to it, Brooke Casserole swears all the time.”

Jody: “Yeah, we’ve heard way worse from Brooke Casserole.”

Brooke: I told that to a friend of mine and now he calls me that. He calls me Brooke Casserole.

Jody: It’s perfect, yeah.

Brooke: I miss you. It’s so fun to talk to you.

Jody: I miss you too.

Brooke: This is why we had to chat for just a second, just because Jody and I don’t get to see each other that often. And I had her on the podcast just so I could see her beautiful face and talk about her amazing book, Better Than Happy. So, can we talk a little bit about the title? Because is there anything better than happy?

Jody: Yes, there is. You should read my book and find out. I mean, that’s the name of my podcast as well, which is partly why I chose the title because that’s how people know me. But I love the idea which I learned from you, but also, it’s threaded throughout what I have taken from my faith and from my religion, that there’s this sort of higher way to live that requires discomfort and requires sacrifice. It requires forgoing, sometimes, pleasure or at least immediate gratification.

And so, I think we all know that. It’s one of the things I found to be fascinating when COVID first hit and everything was shut down. Like, imagine if we didn’t know that there was going to be a virus and all the complications if we just were told, “Oh, pretty soon, you’re just going to get to sit home and do nothing.” We all would have been like, “Yes, I can’t wait. That sounds like a dream.”

And then, not very far into it, we were all just so struggling mentally and emotionally. Like, we actually don’t like ease. We get bored. I think that there’s an equilibrium point of not being overly stressed all the time and hustling, but also still being challenged and growing and feeling the progress that we make. And that’s what I think is better than happiness, just finding that point.

Brooke: Yeah, I totally agree. And I think that one of the fallacies that so many people get in their head is that the goal is to be happy all of the time. And I talk about that a lot. Like, nobody really wants to be happy all of the time and live in this world because there’s a lot of things that we don’t want to be happy about, on purpose. And we get ourselves into so much trouble when we tell ourselves that.

So, I love the title of your book. Tell us about the book. Tell us about your faith. Let’s talk about that. Let’s start with your faith and talk about maybe how you integrate that with the Model, how this book came about. Tell us all the things.

Jody: Well, so I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, more commonly known as the Mormon Faith. And when I went through coach training almost eight years ago – at that point it was a week-long in-person, the main part of it. And to me, it was such a spiritual experience and I kept having so many insights throughout that whole training, all the things you were teaching me about the Model and the brain and emotions. And I just kept seeing the connection between my faith and the principles of my religion and what you were teaching.

It was such an obvious parallel to me, but I felt like the tools you taught me gave me the how-to for living the way that I always wanted to live, that felt right. It felt good to live that way, but I didn’t always know how.

So, for example, one of the principles in each chapter of the book is based on a gospel principle from my faith, which are not all that different from a lot of other faiths. But for example, there’s a chapter on prayer. And the way that we’re taught to pray is to first express gratitude for all the thing we have that we love, and then to ask for what we think we need.

And so, when you taught me, “Listen, the things you think about, you’re going to create in your life,” I thought, well, it makes sense then that we would be taught that when we pray, we should think about all the things we love that we want to continue to have and that we’re grateful for so that we keep emphasizing that part of our lives. And then, we should focus on what we want.

Instead of what I normally do when I’m just chatting with a friend, which is talk about all the things I don’t want and complain about all the things that are wrong. And so, the spirit of prayer, the way I understand it – not that I can’t complain a little bit, but that’s not really the point of prayer. The point of prayer is to direct my mind.

And so, I don’t think it’s so much that God needs to hear from me. He doesn’t need me to tell him what I’m thinking or what I’m feeling or even ask for what I want. He already knows what I need and what I want better than I do even. It’s that I need every day to sit down – it’s a form of meditation – and get my head in the place of, “This is what’s good that I appreciate, and gratitude is so powerful. And then, these are the things I’m going to look out for.”

So anyway, I just felt like – I’ll just add this – that I sometimes feel like there are groups of people within my religion that think that self-help sounds selfish or something. And then there are people sometimes I run into within the world of self-help that think that religion is a delusional way to not think for yourself and to just sort of do what you’re told.

And to me, neither one is true. To me, my religion has enhanced my ability to develop myself and the tools of self-help have enhanced my ability to live my religion. And so, that’s what I wanted to illustrate in this book.

Brooke: Yeah, one of the things I love about you, Jody, is I think you make religion cool. Like, I think sometimes, my experience with some religions and with my personal experience growing up with religion is that it was very dull and hard and I didn’t understand it and I had to sit still and be quiet. And I didn’t really get an experience of it early on that gave me a lot of feelings of growth and self-connection and love with God. Those all came much later to me.

And I think that there’s a lot of times when people want to keep their religion very personal, understandably. That’s their relationship with God and that community.

I love the way you talk and celebrate your religion, talk about a celebrate it and are very out-loud with it. I remember when you first decided that you were going to work with Mormon women and you started talking about it vert publicly. It was the first time I had really seen those two things combined.

And a lot of people were like, “You’re doing what?” Can you talk a little bit about that and how that came to be and what that’s like for you?

Jody: Yeah, and I should say, in all honesty, I was a little worried too. Like, am I going to get in trouble by somebody? The other life coach that I was familiar aside from you was Martha Beck, who was raised in my same religion and then left that religion and has some sort of ill thoughts, at times, about that religion. So, in my mind I was like, “Oh, Martha Beck’s going to come after me and tell me I can’t do this.” As though she would care…

Brooke: That sounds like her… not.

Jody: Or, leaders of my church are going to tell me this is out of line. I was a little, honestly, uncertain about how the two would go together until I really just felt so drawn to it, I felt the power of it in my own life. And so, I knew it was a good thing. And so, I just sort of followed it step by step.

But you know, I will say this – when you say religion in your experience seemed so boring and cut and dry, and I had some of those same experiences too as a child. I think that, at least in the Mormon faith, which is the one I’m familiar with, there’s a certain level of spiritual maturity that has to happen.

Where with kids, even if you think about the way we teach finances to kids, it’s more prescriptive, like, “This is your allowance and when it’s gone, it’s gone.” And then, as they get older, we expect them to have a higher understanding of money. I don’t just hand all of our, like, “You know it costs $200 a month to keep you, so here you go, make it last.” He’s not ready for that, right?

But as he gets older, I’m going to give him more flexibility and expect that he takes more responsibility. And I think spiritually, that’s true for us – at least that’s been my experience, that as I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized, “Wait a second, not only am I not supposed to just take what I was taught and do what I’m told, like a good girl.” But that actually isn’t the point of it at all and it doesn’t even work.

I have to develop my own relationship with God. I have to come to know him, which is really tough to do. I have to filter out, like, whatever noise I have about my dad or any other authority figure that I might associate in my head. And I have to really open myself up to, “I want to know God. I want to know him for myself. And I want to know even the things that I read in the scriptures, what does that mean for me?” It’s not the same for any two of us. And that’s actually much more challenging than just, “Someone tell me what to do and I’ll just do it.”

Brooke: Yeah, I remember – it was funny, I asked a member of my family one time, I said, “Oh, so why do you want to be Catholic?” Because she was Catholic. And I said it that way on purpose, like it was a choice, not something that you had to do. And she goes, “I just really want to know what happens when I die. That’s why I’m Catholic.”

And I was like, “That is so fascinating.” And when I first started studying Byron Katie and I first started studying thought work, she talks about how we all have a religion. And it may be a structured religion that we were taught, maybe one that we converted to later, maybe just one that isn’t even an organized religion. It’s just the religion of life is terrible.

And it’s like a set of beliefs that we live into and a set of values that we live into that we may or may not be conscious of. So, I love the way you talk about being in your religion and being very happily in your faith, and also using your own agency and using your own brain and mind and consciousness to develop your own relationship with God and to interpret everything in a way that serves you at the highest level, I would imagine, is how you approach it.

Jody: I like to think of it too as – I heard actually a doctor at the beginning of COVID talking about something and he used the term, “Strong convictions loosely held.” And I love that idea that, I want to be really convicted, but also, I hold loosely to all of it. Like, this works really well for me, but I’m not holding so tight that I’m not open to understanding that maybe I was wrong about certain parts or maybe there’s a different way to apply this.

Even with the Model, I had somebody ask me the other day, “Well, I know you say thoughts cause feelings, but it feels to me like feelings cause thoughts, and I read this somewhere…” you know, and I always like to come back to, “I don’t really know.” We don’t really know.

I don’t know all the things in our religion. I don’t know, I just choose to believe this. It helps me to think about it as thoughts cause feelings. But could I be wrong? Of course.

Brooke: Of course, yeah.

Jody: Could you prove it another way? Of course. And could I be wrong that there is a God and that we lived with him before and all of the things? Of course. I just choose to believe it. So, strong convictions loosely held is where I find the most freedom.

Brooke: And kind of to go back to what you said too, I think when people say, “You’re just being delusional…” like, what you were saying about religion, “Well that’s just delusional.” Or, “Believing in the Model is just delusional,” or the latest one was like, you telling people that they can make as much money as they want is delusional.

And I’m just like, “But what is a delusion? What is an illusion? If this is delusional, I want it.”

Jody: Yes, I know.

Brooke: This is what I want. We have to choose something to believe and I want to choose the thing to believe that makes me the person who I want to be and makes me live the life that I want to live. And so, it’s exactly what you’re saying, we get so caught up in what’s true and what’s real and what isn’t.

Like when people say, “You can’t be telling people they can make as much money as they want. You have to be realistic.” I’m like, “I’m just looking around. Seems to be reality to me.” And I know that you don’t see that as realistic, but how can I sit here and say that it’s possible for me and not for somebody else? That’s the most unrealistic thing I could say, that I’m somehow different than other humans, that I can somehow create something they can’t.

And so, for me, I love that. I believe in it with all my heart. I believe in the Model with all my heart, but if someone comes to me with a better tool, I am down, immediately. I’m like, “Let’s go.” You’ve got something that works better than this, how could I not want that? This is the best thing I’ve ever done. If this is better, I want to live the best life I possibly can.

Jody: Yeah, I always say, I think being realistic is so overrated.

Brooke: Agreed.

Jody: I love the way Esther Hicks talks about this. I can’t remember how she says it, but something about, like, “If you want to be realistic and just be really clear on what is true, it’s like you’re in a car and there’s no bottom and you’re just looking down at the road. But if you want to look out the windshield at where you’re going, it’s probably more fun.” There’s no point in being realistic, really.

Brooke: Or, and defining that reality is what I make it.

Jody: It’s so subjective. That’s right.

Brooke: This is my reality. So, tell me about the process of writing this book.

Jody: Yeah, I mean, I struggled with this process more than I struggle with most things. And first of all, I tend to be like a, “Let’s just do it quick and get it out there.” What is the opposite of a perfectionist? Like a hot mess? I’m like, “What? It doesn’t need to be perfect. That’s fine. Let’s go. Typos, who cares?” None of that bothers me.

And so, writing a book is not a process like that, that you can just throw something out there. I mean, even reading a book takes me a long time, let alone writing it and having people read it and send you feedback and have to go through and rewrite that book however many times was just – at first it was a little bit emotional because of course the people I had reading it would be similar to my target audience, which was people who understood my faith but didn’t really understand coaching.

I wanted it to be like a spiritual book that they didn’t realize they were going to be getting coached along the way. And so, that’s who was reading it. And so, they would send it back and say, “I don’t understand this part,” or they would push back on, like, “I don’t think that’s true, what you’re saying, that we can’t feel other people’s love,” for example. Things that I just kind of didn’t want to be bothered with. I was like, “No, you’re wrong about this.”

Brooke: “Just trust me on this one…”

Jody: Yeah, and it was a really good process though, for me to learn, like, “No, that’s good. I want to hear, how does it come across to somebody that hasn’t been exposed to this work for years like I have? And how do I explain it in a way that makes sense? And how do…” I’ve got to meet people where they are and then hope that they’ll take a step with me as opposed to expect them to catch up to me.

And so, anyway, it was emotional and a lot of work. And I will say, when I got done with the book, or when I finally got done with the manuscript, you know, and it’s pretty much ready to go and then it’s a long process after that before it goes to print, and people kept saying, “How did it turn out? Are you excited about it?”

And I was like, “I don’t know.” I mean, it feels like a sewing project that I’ve been looking at for so long that I’m so sick of it that I’m like, “Do I even like this? I don’t know. It might be terrible.”

And so, I didn’t look at it or anything for probably seven months, until it was published. And I did read the Audible, but I was sort of in a different headspace of making sure I was articulating and all of that. So, then I went back and listened to it on Audible and I was, like, crying as I was listening to it. I was like, I am really proud of it. It really did turn out beautifully, thanks to all the help.

Brooke: Oh, that’s amazing. So, what is your hope for this book? First of all, who do you hope picks it up? And what do you hope they take from it?

Jody: So, like I mentioned, I hope that people who have whatever faith – obviously it speaks directly to the LDS faith, but I think it’s applicable, especially to any other Christian faith. I hope that they will pick it up, maybe people who wouldn’t even have considered self-help in the first place, certainly would never go to a life coach, you know.

But I also hope that people who are really in our community of self-help and coaching will see a different side of religion as well. I sort of view it as a bridge between those two communities, that we’re all saying the same thing in different ways. And it’s not to try to convince people to join me faith or convince people to even hire a life coach…

Brooke: Although you should…

Jody: Although you should. It’s just to bridge some of the gap that I see that, for me has never been a gap. It always was an obvious connection.

Brooke: So, I asked you this earlier but I’d love for you to touch on it, is have you ever found that your clients who are from your faith have benefitted from learning the Model, and it what way?

Jody: Oh my gosh, so much, yes. I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but there’s a huge influx of coaches at The Life Coach School who are members of my church. And when I first went through, I think it was me and Molly and Amy. It was just us.

So, I think a lot of people have that same experience I did. So, let me give another example I think will answer your question. One of the principles that we really emphasize in our religion, that I’m sure a lot of religions do, is forgiveness, like Christ forgave everyone and he commanded us to forgive – he said – 70 times seven times. So, whatever the math is on that.

You could do me wrong 70 times seven times and I should forgive you, right? In other words, just forever, just forgive everyone. So, I think we talk about that at church, about why is that so important and how that actually benefits us more than the person we’re forgiving. We all nod our heads like, “Yes, that’s a good thing, I really want to do that.”

And then, there’s real life that happens when somebody harms you or your child or, you know, people do some pretty terrible things. And so, the Model has helped me break down, “Oh, this is how I forgive. I just take a look at the story I’m believing right now that’s causing me to feel hateful or resentful or hurt, and I delicately notice that that’s just a story.”

And then, this is where, for me, the religion really comes in, is I have found that when I just open myself up to what I call the spirit, I think God is wanting to give me better thoughts all the time. I think he’s always like, “You could think this.” But I can’t hear that when I’m in a noisy place and I have all these other thoughts in my head.

But coaching cleans that up and then it makes me available to the spirit, wherever I get that thought from. Maybe it’s from a coach or a friend or whatever. But I think it’s all God being like, “You could do it this way.” And that’s where the Model, it cleans up the clutter, which makes me more available to the spirit.

Brooke: Oh my gosh, it cleans up the clutter which makes me more available to the spirit. I love that. That is so good. I think a lot of times people will say it has to be either or, it's either self-help or it's religion, or you go to one source. It’s kind of like, “I have my God, I don’t need to have a Model and I don’t need to have mental constructs to be supporting that.

But to see that, yes, they can be integrated and support each other, I think that is so powerful. And a lot of times, people will ask me the question, like, “How does this integrate? How can I maintain this faith and also believe in this other thing? Because this seems to be such a brain thing, such a human thing, how do you address that?

Jody: And I find too – I don’t know if you hear this – that people are afraid that they’re going to come in and learn this and then they’re going to have a faith crisis or abandon something that feels safe to them. And certainly people have all different kinds of experiences, but I just think that truth and goodness just are. And as human beings, I believe we’re all born with the ability to recognize truth and goodness.

And because we grow up in a world where we’re fed all kinds of sometimes toxic things, like even the word God, for some people, brings on many toxic feelings. So, I don’t think that’s the right word for them, then, you know.

It might be that they call it the universe or they just think of it in terms of more clinical ways to describe it. I don’t care what you call it. In the end, it’s truth, it’s goodness, it’s loving everyone. That’s what I really – again, when I first found you and the Model and all this work, it’s all about loving everyone, loving yourself, loving everyone in the story, embracing what is, rolling with things instead of being resistant to it, it’s all goodness.

And whatever you want to label it, every religion has their own words, you can label it. But to me, it does also require inward reflection on, “Is this good and true for me?” And that’s true whether it’s religion or self-help or anything else.

And I do think that’s scary for people. I think we would much rather someone, in many cases, at some points in our lives anyway, we would much rather someone just tell us, “This is what’s good. This is what’s right.” But when you’re ready to grow up, you have to access that inwardly. And I believe that’s where God talks to us, is inwardly. It’s an inward knowing.

Brooke: And I do think there’s also a piece of this all or nothing, and I’m always teaching, like, “Listen, I’m going to teach you all of the things that I believe and all of the things that have helped me in my life and many of the things that have helped many of my students.” Some of those things will resonate with you and change your life and you’ll think that I’m the greatest thing in the world. And so, then you will feel, on some level, that I’m right about everything, or that I should be right about everything.

And you may disagree with this other thing I teach over here and be really frustrated with trying to reconcile those two things. I always say, don’t be frustrated at all. Take some of it, leave the rest.

And I think that’s also true with religion. I think not as necessarily, “I’m going to leave this and take this.” But, “I’m going to interpret this in a way, I’m going to understand this, I’m going to apply this in a way that resonates as the truth for me.” And I think they’re both very similar in that way.

Jody: That’s exactly right. And you know, with my religion anyway, and I think many religions, we have human beings who are the ones conducting the meetings, teaching the classes or the sermons or what have you. And so, we’re imperfect by nature.

Even though the pure doctrine of whatever it is for your faith – for me it’s that Jesus Christ is the son of God and he atoned for us. That is perfect. But there’s so many branches off of that that people are trying their best to interpret and teach, and they’re going to get some of it wrong, or you’re going to interpret it in a way that doesn’t serve you. It doesn’t mean, like you said, you’ve got to throw the whole thing out.

You have to be able to sift through that. That is again that spiritual maturity that I love to help people with. One thing we do with the Model too is people will say, “Our church teaches this, or we believe this in our religion.” And people think that’s a circumstance. They want to put it in the C-line.

In fact, I love watching you coach members of my church about a cultural thing that you may not be familiar with, because you always do it right because you know the difference between a thought and a fact. They think, “Brooke just doesn’t get it because she’s not a member of my church.”

Brooke: “Brooke doesn’t understand that this is a circumstance…”

Jody: I’m like, “Oh no, she gets it.” And so, even just being able to separate out, this is culture versus doctrine, like separating out a circumstance from a thought. And there’s very little that’s actual doctrine. It’s mostly human beings trying to interpret doctrine and mostly with the best of intentions.

And so, I don’t know, just having the Model to separate those things out helps me realize, this is where I have room to interpret. And back to what you said about your teachings of self-help too, you know.

Every now and then, someone is like, “Well Brooke said this…” I’m like, “Okay, you know what, I agree with 95% of what Brooke says,” which is a pretty high percentage. But there is 5% that I’m like, “No.”

Brooke: “No, I don’t agree with that at all…” I mean, I don’t agree with 5% of the stuff I say.

Jody: Just so you know, my percentage of agreeing with you is higher than with my husband, probably, so that’s good.

Brooke: I would hope so. Okay, so are you using this book in your membership? Tell everyone about your membership a little bit and how the concept that you teach – first of all, go get the book, Better Than Happy,…

Jody: I’ll add one thing. We put in the book some real live coaching. There’s a QR code right in the middle that you can scan and take to a webpage where there’s some coaching. So, I’m sure everybody listening to this has heard coaching. But yeah, I mean, the book is way more doctrinally focused than my membership. I tend to keep it a little heavier on the self-help side than the doctrine side.

And I have people in the membership that are not all members of my faith and we get a little bit more variety in there. The book is much more of a spiritual book. So, I mean, people should check out the membership. It’s awesome, of course.

But I wanted this book also to be something that someone who maybe does like my work could give it to their sister who isn’t really into self-help or life coaching.

Brooke: Interesting.

Jody: So, I think it’s a good – like people are always asking me, “How do I get other people to see this?” I mean, it’s just a good introduction to it, especially for someone that is faith-based.

Brooke: Okay, and so, tell everyone about your membership and what you do in there.

Jody: So, my membership is called Be Bold and I teach a new topic every month that we focus on, just in terms of personal growth and development. And then we do calls. I have a team of coaches also that helps and we do coaching and answer questions.

I kind of think of it as being in two buckets. We always need something to push back against in order to grow. That’s how we grow, when there’s resistance. So, sometimes, life gives us something, like there’s a problem or a challenge, and that can be our pushback that’s going to help us grow, if we choose.

Other times, we’re coasting along, things are a little bit easier, that’s when we want to set a goal. Because we want to have something to push back on, to grow. And so, that’s what we do in there is either focus on challenges or goals, and I try to guide you along the way. So, that’s what we do.

Brooke: And it is faith based in there. You do discuss religion in there. But there are a lot of people that aren’t a member of the LDS church that are in there.

Jody: Yeah, I mean, if it’s going to bother you to hear people talk about God or Jesus or church or whatever, then it’s not going to be the place for you…

Brooke: I disagree because if it bothers you if people are talking about that, you should get coached on it.

Jody: But you know, I like it to be a place where people can, again, gain spiritual maturity. It doesn’t always feel like church is the place to go, “I don’t know about this,” and really question things. And I think questioning it is an important part of developing your faith. So, if a client wants to bring it up, we will discuss the religious aspect. And I have that knowledge of it.

And it comes up too in my teaching a little bit. I’ll tie in the doctrine of the church where I see relevant. And I was just teaching a class the other day about – I called it Being the Boss of Your Brain, and it was if you’re trying to believe a new thought, you only need to just to want to believe it really.

And in the scriptures, they call it having just the faith of a mustard seed. All you need to do is plant a seed and then the Lord will nurture it, if you want to believe it. So, I’ll brin gin doctrine like that in little ways.

Brooke: Yeah, I just heard a quote the other day. I can’t remember exactly what it was, but it was something about, first of all, believing in something is a skill. And I love to think about, when we’re children, especially those that are raised religious, we are taught what to believe.

And I think we forget that we’re taught it and we practice it and that’s why we believe it. It’s not because we have so much evidence for it. It’s not because we’re living it. It’s because we’re told it and we practice it and then we end up believing it. And that can be applied to anything we want to create in our lives.

And so, it’s like having faith in God, having faith in your religion, but also having faith and using that same skillset in what you’re saying, in creating the life and the values that you want in your life.

So, I love the interplay with religion and the Model and I think there’s so much to be learned from religion. Maybe you read Jody’s book or you join her membership and maybe you’re not Christian, but there’s so much to be learned from that that you could apply to your life that isn’t necessarily becoming a member of that religion.

And I think you do that so beautifully by opening up unconditional love, forgiveness, teaching all the concepts that are values that I think everyone can benefit from.

Jody: Well, thank you.

Brooke: Yeah, totally. So, is there anything else you want to tell us about this book? Anything you want to tell us about your secret personal life?

Jody: I wish it was more exciting. I’m an open book. No, I guess just my publisher got us into all the Costcos in Utah. And when you’re a member of the Mormon Church, Costco, you’ve arrived if you’re at Costco.

Brooke: That is amazing. Congratulations So, have you gone in there and seen?

Jody: I haven’t gone in there, but people keep sending me pictures. I’m always right next to Stephen King in Costco. And so, I’m pretty excited about that.

Brooke: Oh my gosh, that is amazing. Congratulations. Well, Jody, I love you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I’m so…

Jody: Thank you so much for letting me come on.

Brooke: I’m so proud of you for writing this book. Writing a book is hard, y’all, and this is a good book. Jody is amazing. Make sure you check her out. She has a great podcast, I hear, called Better Than Happy. Look her up and follow her there. Alright, my friends. Have a beautiful week. We’ll talk to you next week.

Jody: Thank you, Brooke.

Brooke: Thank you, Jody, love you.

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