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Friendship is a valuable resource whether you’re building your success or basking in it.

It also requires some work. If you want to create successful friendships and keep them strong, they require maintenance and vulnerability.

My friend, Aprille Franks, and I are committed to nourishing our friendship because we see how much joy it brings each of us when we do.

Aprille is a master community builder and digital profit strategist. She is insanely successful, confident, and secure in who she is. And, she has some fascinating insights on what makes a friendship extraordinary.

In this episode, Aprille and I discuss what it means to have a successful friendship and why we love our friendship so much. We share the struggles we’ve had in the past with friendships, what to do when conflict arises, and why consistency is a critical ingredient to a successful friendship.

If you’re looking to take your friendships to a deeper level or create new friendships that bring you more joy, you don’t want to miss this conversation.

Check out the video of our conversation below!

What you will discover

  • What we define as a friend vs. acquaintance.
  • Why being jealous of your friend isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
  • How to prevent conflict in friendships.
  • Why having other entrepreneurial friends as an entrepreneur is paramount.
  • Why strong, busy women need their girlfriends.

Featured on the show

Episode Transcript

You are listening to The Life Coach School Podcast with Brooke Castillo episode 413.

Welcome to The Life Coach School Podcast, where it’s all about real clients, real problems and real coaching. And now your host, Master Coach Instructor, Brooke Castillo.

Aprille: Hello, darling. Welcome.

Brooke: Hello. So Aprille and I just jumped on the Zooms together. We’re still getting organized. But what inevitably happens is I don’t start the recording until after all the good stuff is said. So, I just decided to start it and we’re still putting on lip gloss, still fixing our hair…

Aprille: Listen, I am in recovery mode. I just had cosmetic surgery a week ago today.

Brooke: And… how you feeling? How you looking?

Aprille: I feel great, you know. Valium is amazing. Prescribed, of course.

Brooke: I love it. Alright, today we’re talking about friendship.

Aprille: Yes.

Brooke: We’re talking about success and friendship. And Aprille and I had talked about doing this podcast many times and finally I’m like, “Let’s just go. Let’s just record it.” And there are so many things that I want to talk about. We haven’t talked about what we’re going to talk about, which makes the best podcast anyway.

But I’m just going to start talking and then it’s going to be amazing. I’m going to…

Aprille: Okay, I have an admission. I’m terrified that my phone is going to ring and I don’t know where it is.

Brooke: Okay, I love it, “Coming attractions on The Life Coach School Podcast… Will Aprille’s phone ring?” Okay, well hopefully…

Aprille: “And who will it be?”

Brooke: “Who will it be? We will answer live on the air.” Goodness, we probably should not do that. We’ll get to that later. Okay, so Aprille and I spent Thanksgiving this year together. And we had a conversation. We were sitting out on the deck together waiting for something to cook. I don’t remember what it was.

We sat down and we were talking. And we were talking about friendship. And we were talking about how important friendship is to us and how important our friendship is to us. And I said to her, I said, “You have so many friends though.”

And she said, “No, I don’t have that many friends. I have a lot of acquaintances, but I don’t have that many friends.” And it just was profound to me. It hit me. I’m the same. I’m the same but in a different way. I don’t have a lot of acquaintances, but the friends that I do have are different then acquaintances. There’s friends. There’s close friends. And I have a collection of those. And then, there’s acquaintances.

Aprille: Yes.

Brooke: And you have a lot of people around you a lot of the time that I would call friendships, but you were saying were more acquaintance friendships. So, let’s talk about the difference. What do you think the difference is?

Aprille: Yeah, for me, so I equate a friend with someone who I would do intimate things with; spending Thanksgiving, you know, travelling together, supporting during a death or a birth. You know, to me, those are really special things.

And because we’re in the business that we’re in where people have access to our content and we see – so there is a heightened opportunity for us to attract a lot more people to us, then I end up with a lot of people that are connected to me but I don’t necessarily call them friends. Those are acquaintances. Which there’s no bad in acquaintances.

Brooke: No.

Aprille: Yeah, that’s not a downgrade. It’s just, you’re connected more intently with some people than you are with other people.

Brooke: Yeah, and for sure I think friends, for me, I have – ever since I got a divorce a couple of years ago, I’ve bene intentionally seeking out friendships. Because a lot of the friendships that I had in the past were based on my kids and parents of my kids and that sort of thing.

And so, when I moved to Austin, I kind of got into friend mode. I wanted to find friends. I wanted to find lots of acquaintances too. And people have asked us many times, like, how did we become friends?

Aprille: How the hell did that happen?

Brooke: How did that go down? And so, I want to make this instructive too. I want to share our story and I think people will be interested in it. But I also want to make it instructive because I think there are a lot of women our age that are successful, that are entrepreneurs that are working that want to go out and make friends.

And I don’t think people realize how intentional we both were, first of all in just becoming friends, and how intentional we are at maintaining our friendship.

Aprille: And in addition to that, I think what’s important for people to understand is that as you’re evolving in your success journey, the friends that you had may not continue to be your friend. And I think sometimes as you’re climbing your success ladder, building your business, some of your – what I call childhood friends or pre-success friends who are not in the same business as you, I believe that they feel left out because you’re having a different level of conversations. Your ability to have opulent experiences, it changes.

And so, I think that’s really a worthy topic as well with this because that’s the thing. People feel like they’re leaving – they’re like, “What do I do with my friends?” And so, that’s a thing too. So, the deliberation and how deliberate we are in creating success friendships, and then how do you maintain your friends that you grew up with and that maybe they work an amazing job someplace that they love and they have no desire to jet set and to do the things that we’re doing. So, I think that’s worthwhile too.

Brooke: So, so many things to unpack there. One of my favorite Aprille quotes of all time is, “I didn’t leave them behind. They just didn’t come.” I can’t even tell you how much that sets me free with so many things in my life.

One of the reasons why I believe you and I sought each other out to be friends and were like, “Hey…” is we have so much in common. Because we’re both single. We both have very successful businesses. We both live alone. We’re both very outgoing and direct and not easily offended. So, we can have really honest open conversations that we call each other out and we talk about things and we’re like, “What are you wearing? No, what is happening? No.”

That kind of, where you can just be who you are, you don’t have to apologize or hold back or dilute yourself. And so, for me, that was what I was so attracted to in you as a friend and wanted. I was so hungry for that.

And to your point, I think – you know, I have other close friends in my life who are entrepreneurs as well. But I did have a lot of friends that could not relate to me at all.

Aprille: Which is so interesting, right? Because here’s what’s so interesting about this friendship. Number one, I don’t know if y’all have noticed, but I am Black. And Brooke is white. And Brooke has a totally different upbringing than I do. And I think people are amazed by that and that we end up having so many things in common irregardless of where we came from originally.

And I think that – because you’re right, friendships are connections. And I think people sometimes forget that friendships are connections and people are connected intrinsically, I believe. Like, you can’t even put a pinpoint on it until you’re just in the room and then you’re like, “Oh, I like this person. This person is super dope.”

Because I too have the same thing. I have other friends as well and we all vibe in different ways. Oh, and you know what, this is how I think of friendships. Do you remember Google Circles?

Brooke: Yes.

Aprille: So, remember when Google – I don’t know, eight years ago, and they had these circles? Well, I think of friendships like those circles. And I think what happens is people want everybody to be friends. Like, friends want all their friends to be friends.

What I’ve learned in this journey is that, leave people alone. There is a spiritual circle of friends. There is the childhood friend. There are the success friends. There are the friends that you just talk shit about whatever. And not all of those overlap. And some of my circles of friends, they never intertwine because it’s just not in alignment.

Brooke: Isn’t that interesting? I have groups of friends that I don’t bring together because it feels like I get along with them so well individually, but I just can’t imagine us all being in the same room, which is kind of fascinating.

My closest, closest friends all have met each other. I just put that together and see what happens. And so, if you’re kind of in the position that I was in, where you’re wanting to make more friends, you’re seeking out friendships where you can lean on the person, where you know they’ll tell you the truth, where you can have those intimate connections, where you can call them up and be like, “Yo, let’s go do something,” and you know that they’ll make an effort to do that thing or talk to you or whatever. I think you have to be honest about your intentions, which is kind of, yes, I mean, it’s kind of weird…

Aprille: Well, I think you’ve got to be a good person too. Like, some people – because it can’t be about, “What am I getting from this person?” Like, that’s a whole thing. It can’t be because – remember, when you first reached out to me, it was because of a video I had ranted online. And before we even did anything, any type of business exchange, we had a conversation.

We tried some things out. And I think people are so shortsighted. They don’t realize that they’re really building relationships. Instead, they are so hungry for the gain.

Brooke: Yeah, what can I get from this?

Aprille: Yeah, instead of just being a fucking human. Just be alright. Like, you don’t have to do anything. And so, I think while we are wanting friendships, I think people have to recognize that this is about you, about your individual self and your own development, and are you a good person? Are you even a good friend?

Brooke: That’s interesting. So, I have never really thought of myself as a good friend because the traditional, I don’t know, expectations of friendship, I hadn’t been good at before. Like returning texts and returning phone calls. And listen, if I don’t return one of Aprille’s texts, she sends me a message that just says, “Mam…” It just says, “Mam…” I’m like, “Okay, I better get back with this shit.”

Aprille: But for me, not being offended…

Brooke: No, but you’re just like, “It’s time. We’re going to return. I’ve sent you a message.” It’s just like, poke, poke, “I’m still here.” And that’s the other thing. It’s like, instead of quietly seething or whatever, it’s like, “Are you going to call me back? What are you doing? I need to talk to you. Let’s talk to each other.”

Yes, so for me, the way that I want to show up as a friend to you and to my other friends is, first of all, not having too many of them, but also being in a position where I am honest and truthful and like your biggest fan. And sometimes your biggest fan has to tell you, “You’re not doing that. You’re not wearing that. You’re not doing that. You’re not selling that. You’re not handling that well. You’re not dating that.”

Aprille: Right, of god, the dating. We’ll get there.

Brooke: So, I think that’s part of it. But also, from the very beginning, I made it clear, after we had got to know each other, we had done some work together, but after we got to know each other, like, “Okay, this isn’t over. I’m into you. Let’s be friends.”

And so, at that point, it was really about reaching out to each other and saying, “Hey, do you want to come on this trip? Or do you want to go do this thing together?” And making an intention to have conversations.

But listen, in the very beginning of all friendships, it’s like dating in the very beginning, you don’t know the person that well yet, so you’re not landing softly every time. You show up and you consistently make that effort. And now, we’ve landed in this, like, such comfortable – I feel like I can call you any time for any reason and tell you anything. But I do think that’s earned.

It's like, we want to have love at first sight, which we kind of did. But still, it required work to get to the point where we’re like…

Aprille: No, it wasn’t love at first sight.

Brooke: I mean, it was for me. Speak for yourself, Aprille.

Aprille: But yeah, I agree. It’s like everything is about relationships. Our businesses are. We are. Everything is. And so, you’re right, we made an intention, “I’m going to be here. Do you want to come? I’m going to go do this. Do you want to come check this out?”

And I think too, just recognizing that you don’t need anything from your friends. You’re just there.

Brooke: Yeah, that’s what I love about you. I was thinking about this this morning. One of the things that I love about you is you have this full, rich, amazing life that I get to enjoy and be a part of. You’re not trying to entertain yourself with my life because your life is fantastic, and my life is fantastic. So, when we get together we’re like…

Aprille: I know, listen, let me tell you something. When me and Brooke get together – I don’t know if I’ve ever said this, but I literally need like two days to recuperate.

Brooke: She did say, “You know, hanging out with you is like hanging out with a 24-year-old.” And I do act like I’m 24, especially in the past couple of years. I’m coming out of it, I think. Maybe not. I hope not.

We have the same kind of energy, the same kind of love of life, willing to put ourselves out there, say the things. And we’re both in a phase of our life that’s very similar. So, it’s very…

Aprille: Coming off of divorce. And I think that’s important too, right? It’s like, if you’re wanting to build a relationship with another success chick, then you also can’t be guarded. Because if you’re guarded, then they never get to see the real you.

So, for example, let me tell you something I love about Brooke. When we were in LA, remember when I rented that mansion in the hills and you came and one of my clients was there. One of my clients that’s doing really well, Jessica Miller-Merrell, shout you out, girl. She was there and we were talking. It was in the evening. And we were sitting out by the fire.

And me, you, and her were out there and she was talking about some idea. She was like, “Have you thought about…” And you were like, “Oh my god, that’s a great idea. We’re going to implement that right away.” I love that.

Brooke is successful. I regard Brooke as the most successful brand in our industry. And she’s still learning. That’s what I love about you. You’re not like, “I know everything and I’m this…” you don’t act like that. And that’s what’s super dope, is that you’re a regular person that has figured shit out and it’s working very well. And I love that.

And the other thing I love too is, on Sunday morning when we were departing from that trip, I came upstairs and you were reading a marketing book with your highlighter, highlighting things. I sat next to you. We had that great view of the hills. And you were like, “Yeah, I’m reading this book.” And we were talking. And I just think that that is great.

It's like, how are we adding our own value to our own selves, but also just being who we are naturally, not putting on any airs or, “I’m going to do this just to be pretentious or to seem a certain way.” And I just love that you’re also just a person that is also learning.

And so, I say that all to say, piggybacking off what you said about friendships, is that you're just being yourself. You're just being normal. And there is nothing to take from each other. And so, yeah.

Brooke: I think this is really important to talk about because I think there’s a lot of women in our industry, life coaches, entrepreneurs that are in business. And I think traditionally, there can be, like, this cattiness and this competition among women and who’s attractive and who’s more successful and who has more friends or whatever.

And I feel like there’s none of that with us. And I don’t feel like there’s any of that with any of my friends. And I have been in dating relationships – I’ve actually been in friendships where people have said to me that just being with me and watching me live my life and watching what I do makes them feel less than.

And it’s kind of like, it reminds me of back in high school where it’s like, if your friend was so much – in high school, my best friend was so much prettier than me. All the men wanted her and I always got the friend, you know. I was that girl. I always got the friend. That’s a story for another day.

Aprille: Sometimes that works out.

Brooke: I was always just friends with the guy and she was with the hot guy having all the great times. And I was always just so excited for her and everything. But there were a lot of situations in high school where people would not be friends or they’d be competitive or they’d be jealous and start backstabbing that person because they would feel less attractive. Or I would have friends that would feel less successful because I’m so successful. Why don’t we have that?

Aprille: Because we’re secure in who we are.

Brooke: Okay, so let’s talk about that. Because I don’t think that it’s necessarily a bad thing if you’re jealous of your friend or if you, you know…

Aprille: It’s an indicator. Jealousy is an indicator. It’s not bad. It’s an indicator that you need to check yourself. Why are you jealous of your friend? Because we’re all mirrors to one another. So, if you’re feeling some sort of envy, then it’s really a great opportunity for you to self-assess. Your body is telling you that there are some things that you aren’t doing that you know you’re capable of. I think that’s what jealousy is.

Brooke: I love that. That’s so great. Because I feel, in my soul, genuinely, that my girlfriends, my group of girlfriends, we want each other to win. And we want each other to win big. And I’m as excited when you have a win as when I have a win.

And listen, I’m not Aprille’s coach. I’m her friend. So, I just commiserate with her. I just am like, “That sucks. That’s terrible…”

Aprille: “Why are you doing that? You need to stop doing this…”

Brooke: Bossing her around, all of it. Because that’s the difference between friendship and coaching. But I also think it’s like, how do you find relationships with women who will celebrate you, who won’t try and, maybe, like, “Well who do you think you are. Now you think you’re better than me? You want to show off and…” We just want to be real. We just want to be realistic.

Aprille: Here’s the thing. You know what I love the most? When we’re all hanging out and we all walk in somewhere, we’re all successful, we’re all happy. We all feel beautiful. We all look different. I’m a totally – I mean, I’m a big voluptuous chocolate girl, you know. And I’m waltzing in…

Brooke: Girl, you look good…

Aprille: Honey, you know what I’m saying. I walk into Beverly Hills…

Brooke: By the way, we’re videoing this, so you can go to the website and see how attractive we are.

Aprille: I am single, I’m just saying. So, yeah, we’re confident. So, that goes back to what I was saying earlier. Your success journey has so much more to do with your personal development and you just need confidence in what you’re bringing to the table. Because everyone has value. There’s value. All of us are learning something from one another indirectly and sometimes directly. And I think that’s it.

I feel good about me, so you shining doesn’t diminish anything. It has nothing to do with me…

Brooke: It’s like double the shine…

Aprille: Listen, we need a whole government commercial of our own.

Brooke: Yeah, I mean, I just went and spoke at Tonya Leigh’s event in Miami. And we spoke at this event together and it was like, us being on stage together, it just doubled-down – Tonya’s amazing, and then I was able to come in and bring my energy, which is very different than hers. And it created a whole new experience for that 90 minutes that I was there. It just uplifted everything, not in a better way, just in a different way.

Aprille: I’m so glad you said, “Different, not better,” because that’s – I was literally going to say that. That was my next point. It’s like, it’s not better. It’s just a different perspective. And they all have value. And here’s the thing; we’re all adding value to one another’s lives. And we take a piece of something from all of it, you know. Yeah, so it’s just the dopest ever.

Brooke: So, I want to offer some kind of ideas on maintaining good friendships. Because I think it’s very easy to just fall out of touch, to not talk. And we have mutual friends, Warren, and it’s Roberto, but I call him Roberto. And they’re very good friends. And I happen to live in Austin, where they are. But you probably see them more than I do.

But I hadn’t seen them in a long time because I was in Scottsdale and they just sent me a message, they’re like, “Remember when we were friends?”

Aprille: That’s so Warren. Did he send that?

Brooke: Remember when we were friends? That was so great.” And then I sent them a message today and I was just like, “My heart misses you. Where are you? What’s happening?”

And it’s just, I think, being conscious, not having so many friends that you can’t remember all of them, but having a close group that you do. And Roberto and Warren and I, when we’re both here, we always try to go to eat once a week. And we sit down and I give them all the dating stories and they give me all the advice.

Aprille: Which I’m literally so jealous of. I’m like, “Are you kidding? Y’all are at dinner again?”

Brooke: And then we Facetime Aprille. She’s always in an airport travelling somewhere. But my point there is you have to make the effort. Even if it’s just a text, like, “Hey we need to catch up. We need to connect. I love you. I’m thinking about you. You matter to me. I want to know what’s going on in your life.”

Aprille: So, catch this, for the listeners. Here’s the thing; I believe that the brands that have great relationships with their online communities are the people that have great personal relationships. How you do a thing is how you do anything. So, if you’re inconsistent in your business, it’s probably because you’re inconsistent with your personal relationships too.

Brooke: Yeah, and personal relationships require discipline. And I think that sounds like, “I want my relationships to just be natural and easy.” And they can be. It’s kind of like if you work out all the time, working out becomes easy because you lift every day, it’s not hard.

It’s when you’re having to reconnect with people and do that. So, I think that ongoing communication is very important. And not just texting. Like the other day, I just called Aprille, like, “I just need to talk to you.” And I was on a walk and I got to – we downloaded so much stuff and I feel so nourished after conversations like that. And then being together, just in each other’s presence.

That’s why I’m like, “I need to come see you, I need to come be with you.” And not necessarily when we’re busy doing other things when we can really be present with each other. And so, I’m definitely feeling that right now. We haven’t been together enough recently, I’m like, “When are we doing this?"

Aprille: Yeah, and the other thing too is, when we are together – I’m just going to tell everybody right now – we literally are hardly ever talking about work. I think that’s a thing too. This isn’t about masterminding. This is about fulfillment in life. This is enjoying the fruits of the labor. This is not about, “Let’s talk about what we’re launching and what we’re selling.” Literally, I promise, I feel like we may say five minutes of work, and then that’s it.

Brooke: And even out conversations about work are like, “How is it going? How are you doing?” And lie, if I’m having some issues at work or whatever that I am personally struggling with, then I would talk about something like that with you, probably, just to get your insight because I know that you’ll understand something like that.

And I think the other point is – and you brought this up earlier – I think it’s like, we have so much in common, which is why I think we’re really attracted to each other. But we’re also so different, which is what I think makes us so interesting to each other.
Aprille: Let’s talk about what we do have in common. Because we keep saying that, but they want to know what in common we have.

Brooke: No, I said it. We both live in penthouses. We’re both single. We’re both very loud and direct. We’re both very interested in dating…

Aprille: Oh that, I forgot…

Brooke: We’re both hilarious. We’re both very much confrontational out of the box.

Aprille: We’re show-stoppers.

Brooke: When we’re out in public – Aprille lives in Vegas, so need we say more?

Aprille: It’s such a vibe.

Brooke: Let me tell you something that happened.

Aprille: What?

Brooke: No, you were there. I’m telling everyone else what happened. Our friend Jame was with us and we were walking through a casino in Vegas. And I had on very high shoes. And as per normal, I was [crosstalk], and I ate it so hard. I slid and fell. I literally splattered myself.

Imagine, short dress, super-high heels, white girl on the floor. And Jame and Aprille were on that shit. They were on me so fast. They had me picked up, handled, like, I was like, “I will get in a fight with these women any time, like that.”

And what was so great was I was on the floor. I had eaten it. And especially Jame just kept dancing, like this was part of the move. Like, “No, that’s her down on the floor move. We’re just bringing her back up.”

Aprille: That was hilarious.

Brooke: Yeah, which was so fun. So, I think we like the same types of energy. It’s like we like to play hard, we like to work hard. And we can respect that with each other too.

Aprille: And yeah, I think that’s important. And I think too, as you’re developing these friendships, or people that you see – because I do want to say something about how do you, if there’s people you want to cultivate relationships with, what does that practically look like?

But also, you’ve got to be yourself. Stop being performative. You don’t have to fake it. I never fake it. I am literally – I’m so consistently Aprille, you know. You’ve got to be confident in that. And I think so many people are not confident. And then, they show up and they’re trying to be a way that is just so unnecessary.

And I think that’s the joy of this relationship, is that we’re to trying to act like everything’s perfect, because it’s not. But it’s good.

Brooke: Let’s talk about this. You and I haven’t really had a conflict. But I’ve had conflict in other relationships. And you know, I don’t feel like we have conflict, but if you’re like, “Are you going to call me back? I need to know about this.” We’re just very direct. I think we’re very preventative from having conflict.

Because if something starts to kind of – and we’ll ask each other questions and we’ll tell each other the truth, “I do that, I don’t do that. I don’t want to do that. This is how I want things to be handled in my life versus whatever.” But how do you recommend to women like us, very successful, very direct, dominant, confrontational deal with conflict in friendships?

Aprille: Compassion. If you can, through a feminine lens, which is compassion, you can just be compassionate. Because most things aren’t that serious. And most of the times, your friends are not trying to offend you.

If you’re offended – I feel like everything is a self-check. Like, why are you offended? So, it’s like, can you just communicate what feels good for you. Because people can make up stories, like, “Oh well maybe she doesn’t like me anymore,” or this or that. And it’s like, most of the time, we’re all just living our lives, figuring out life. That has nothing to do with your friends. And so, I think that, just that awareness.

Brooke: That’s so interesting. So, I think there’s a lesson there that’s really big, is I think it would be easy in that situation, where if I were to text you and you didn’t text me back, for me to just get upset and think you don’t care and then let that relationship kind of dissipate.

And I think it’s important for me to say to you, “Hey, it matters to me that we talk. It matters to me that we’re connecting. And I know you’re busy, but this is important to me.

Aprille: Yes, I love that. That’s good language too. That’s good language for everyone that’s listening because you don’t have to say, “I’m upset you didn’t call me back. You can just say, “It matters that we talk.”

Brooke: Or you can just say, “Mam…” I know exactly what she means when she says that. But it’s not like, “Hey I’m mad at you because you didn’t text me back,” or, you know, “You’re not doing this right.” It’s like, “Hey, you matter to me and I want to hear your voice and I want to connect and I want to feel you.”

And I will say, every time I get a text from you or a voice message or I call you or whatever, it is so nourishing. And I think that we can sometimes forget how much successful, strong, busy women need our girlfriends and need that support and that energy. And when we’re struggling, reaching out and saying, “Hey, I messed this up. I need you to tell me that you love me right now. I need you to give me some love right now. I need you to hate on this person with me right now.”

Aprille: Because the truth of the matter is, “I need you to rate this Bumble screenshot.”

Brooke: That happens regularly, actually. We’re like, “Where’d you find that guy? Why didn’t I find that guy?”

Aprille: Right, “Send them here…” And listen, let me tell you something, sidebar. For a while, some of the men Brooke was sending me, I was like, “Listen, I’m coming to Texas just…” So, if y’all see me randomly in Austin, just know…

Brooke: Picking up your men…

Aprille: I just came to date and swipe. Although currently, I’m not dating. Currently, I am off all dating apps.

Brooke: Oh.

Aprille: Yes.

Brooke: Because?

Aprille: Well, I just was energetically, it was giving me anxiety. So then, I had to ask myself, what is this sensation about? It’s giving me angst. And it honestly had me in a lot of masculine energy that I didn’t like. So, I came out of it. And so, now I’m, you know, just resting the VJ for a little while and then we’ll get back to it later.

Brooke: “I’m just luxuriating.” Yeah, dating is so – and I love talking to you about dating and having conversations. We just had a really good conversation about it recently. It’s such an opportunity to learn about yourself and your own traumas and your own fears and your own love and all of it. It’s so good. I love being single with you.

Aprille: I know, and I’m going to love being in a relationship with you as well. Not with you, but with a guy and you with a guy, maybe a girl. I was like, I said, “Maybe I’ll date a woman for a while.” But that’s another conversation for another podcast.

Brooke: I am not available for that. But if I were, you would be my woman.

Aprille: Would I get the first call?

Brooke: You would be my woman, yes. We talk about this – I talk about this with Tonya. I’m like, “I wish I could just marry you and live with you and be with you because, like, all the things are the same.” But on the other side of that, it also doesn’t bring up…

Aprille: The thing… And I think that’s the beauty around dating, is instead of dating all the time to find a mate, just date to learn you; what’s acceptable, what’s not, what feels good, why are you triggered? Because when we’re triggered about certain things, it’s something we need to address.

Brook: You say the smartest things. Date to learn you. That is good.

Aprille: Yeah, and have fun. Just like, I think women – and I think we’ve been trained that way too. I think we’ve been conditioned to – we’re looking for the guy. But it’s like, can you just enjoy yourself? Can you just have experiences with other humans that feel good and that teach you about you?

And then you can kind of formulate, you know, “This is the type of relationship that I would really like. This is what feels good for me.” And throughout my dating experience over this past year – I’ve been single for a year, that’s what I’ve learned. And I’ve really just kind of circled back. And we’ll have a talk about that later. We ain’t going to talk about that right now.

But it feels good to know. It’s interesting that people want a mate, but they’re, like, just hermits at home. It’s like, no, you’ve got to get out there so you can see, feel, touch, taste. I mean, not really, but…

Brooke: Or really… Yeah, it’s so interesting. When I was reading Will Smith’s book, he was talking in there about going to Trinidad, and so I called Aprille and I’m like, “We’re going to Trinidad, let’s go.” And I’ve been thinking a lot about just the two of us going on a trip together.

Aprille: Can we please go to Trinidad?

Brooke: I would love that. And I think you and I – we’ve travelled before, but there’s been other people there. It’s like, what if it’s just the two of us? I think we would travel so well because we’re so independent. We both want to have time to work. We love to be together. And so, I think that’s another thing…

Aprille: Are we going to vlog it?

Brooke: I mean, I don’t normally do such things, but every time I’m with – you have to follow Aprille on Instagram if you want to see me having a hot mess of a night. Aprille videos and takes pictures of everything and puts it on there. I’m like, “You get it…” And she tags @thelifecoachschool, like, “Vegas nights with Brooke Castillo.” Yeah, so I mean, for sure we can do that.

Aprille: We should go.
Brooke: People like to see, I think, what it’s like for women to have great friendships and have great times building businesses.

Aprille: Here’s the truth. At the end of the day, we all are working. And this isn’t our whole life. There’s a whole other life that’s being lived outside of coaching and outside of business. And people want to – they do want to know. And they want to know because they really want to know, are we as normal as they are? I think that’s it. And the truth is, it is, times 10, right?

Brooke: Well, I think – listen, I think we’re normal and we’re also not normal. There are so many times on a vacation where I’m like, “This is some rich-people shit.”

Aprille: Yeah, like dancing naked on the balcony with a Cosmo…

Brooke: Yeah, in the penthouse. There are things that we’re able to do because of the money we’ve earned. And so, I think that’s fun as a celebration of independent women being able to pay their bills…

Aprille: Although, I will tell y’all a secret. Let me tell y’all about your coach here, Brooke Castillo. She doesn’t like other people to pay for things. It’s the most annoying thing. And one day I told her, I was like, “Listen, I have taxes. I need write-offs too. You can’t do this.”

Brooke: But you know what, you changed me and I talked about this on the podcast, but you changed me in a really profound way when I went to LA and you had rented this mansion and you had invited me to come. There was this room that you had just for me, and you had all this swag in this room.

And one of the pieces of swag was a pair of sunglasses. Like, Gucci sunglasses. And you paid for all the food and we had entertainment, we had everything. And I hadn’t experienced that from a friend, someone doing that for me, it was so profound.

And I remember telling you like, that was so amazing. And you were like, “Yeah, I asked your assistant what you’d like and your assistant said that you didn’t like gifts. You don’t like being given gifts.” And I had said that because people would always be sending me gifts, and I’m like, don’t send me gifts, I don’t want gifts.

And you just really confronted me on that. You’re like, it’s not about you. And you know what, you were right. I was like, listen, I hear that and I’m going to change that. I went on the podcast, I’m like, send me your gifts, everyone because I’m now available for gift receiving because it was so meaningful to experience that from you.

And to have you be so generous with your time and your energy. And listen, I’m usually the one that’s in that position so I know it’s not just paying for it. It’s planning it, and having it all prepared. So that was such a - I don’t know, meaningful experience for me. And we were just developing this friendship, and that just sealed the deal for me.

Aprille: I was so grateful that you came. I mean, I was like, I want to get some girlfriends together, it’ll be so nice, and we can just hang out, and we can have male masseuses, a male chef, and hire little male entertainment. And also, that’s how I show love.

So I think what we also have to recognize is that when you said you don’t like gifts, I’m like, but I want to love her, I want to give something. And so yeah, you know, the other thing too why I love it is because I love for people to feel seen. That’s the thing for me.

Brooke: That is one thing you really do. You really do for me as a friend is you really make me feel seen. And you know, I was telling you about this. We talked about this, we did a call with Trudi, my diversity coach, and we talked about this.

And one of the things that was really interesting for me is there are times when I’m with Aprille and I’m the only white person there. And one of the things that Aprille does that really taught me this experience is like, there are many more instances in your life Aprille, where you’re going to be the only Black person, versus me being the only white person.

So I don’t have that experience. But you acknowledging that moment, like, you know you’re white and we’re Black, I would have thought that that would make me feel excluded, but it was the complete opposite. And it’s like, being seen has really helped me learn how to see.

Aprille: That’s so good.

Brooke: In so many ways. So I think that’s something you do beautifully. When you feel like your friends really see you, and because we’re both entrepreneurs I think we understand each other on that level too.

Aprille: Definitely. I agree.

Brooke: And being able to not just see that person, but acknowledge that you see them. I know what this is like for you, I know this is challenging for you, I want to come support you, I want to come be there for you. What do you need from me? That sort of thing I think is amazing.

All of you listening, thinking about that consciously with your current friends and thinking about this idea of making new friends. Like, we’re pretty new friends. We’ve been friends for two years?

Aprille: I don’t know. I lost track. But I will say that from a practical standpoint, if there’s someone that you’re attracted to, and we can call it that, you’re attracted to their energy, you’re attracted to their vibe, then send them a card.

There was a couple women that I really - I was like, oh my God, I love them, their vibe is so good. I asked for their address and I just mailed them something. Or invite them somewhere. And the other thing is don’t be offended if that’s not their thing.

That’s cool too. But if that’s something you want, you putting that energy out there and you being true to yourself and what you’re wanting, and if that’s something, then you should just do it. Girl, make the first move, honey.

Brooke: Really. If you want to be friends, that’s like Tonya Leigh. She came up to me five years ago, was like, “Can we be friends?” I was like, no.

Aprille: I love her. I just talked to her this morning.

Brooke: But then we became friends later. At the time it wasn’t right, and I think people have said that to you, like, how did you become friends with Brooke? I want to be friends with Brooke. Or how did you become friends with Aprille? I want to be friends with Aprille.

It’s like, you have to find your own journey, your own connection. And I do think the people you’re meant to be friends with, you will be. But why do you want to be friends with them is the other thing.

Aprille: And this was very organic too. This was just very organic and I like to be friends with people that I just like. If you have a good vibe, because you’re right, everyone doesn’t understand. And remember when I talked about those circles, your friends pre this journey, they don’t care about certain things. And that’s okay.

And you do want a success circle of friends that you can talk about all the things with life and relationships and how you’re feeling. I mean, for goodness’s sake, I told Brooke that I was having a tantric massage recently. I may not say that to my spiritual circle of friends, or I might. I probably would. I probably would say it to everyone.

Brooke: Everybody knows all my business too. Like, if people knew this, I’m like, I tell everybody everything. I don’t have any secrets. She’s like, “I had this massage, it was amazing.” And then later she’s like, “Why can’t I stop thinking about that massage?” I was like, “Umm, it was amazing, if you know what I’m saying.”

Aprille: There’s more. So just be cool and reach out. And don’t be offended. Learn what triggers you when you’re feeling outside of anything that’s not happy. If you’re feeling some type of way, like if someone doesn’t respond, or someone doesn’t do this or that, it’s not - it has nothing to do with you honestly. Just continue to be yourself. Continue to know yourself, continue to expand as a human being.

Brooke: And listen, I do want to offer two things. I think if you’re an entrepreneur and you’re in business and you’re trying to grow a business, having other entrepreneur women friends is paramount. It is so important.

And non-competitive, supportive, great, everybody celebrates winning, everybody really genuinely wants you to win because it rises everybody up, and it really does. If you have someone that’s winning in your friend group, it makes everybody feel like a winner. It’s so fun.

Aprille: I even asked Tonya, I sent her a voice note, I said, “Who designed your set design? I need that designer.” So she sent the details this morning. I was like, okay great. It’s those little-bitty things that come up. Because she sent me pictures of you on stage with her in Miami. Y’all were so cute.

Brooke: We had a great time. And the other thing that I want to say is I do think that sometimes you’ll want to be friends with someone. Like Tonya Leigh, this is a great example, wanted to be friends with me five years ago. I was not interested in being friends with Tonya Leigh at the time. I wasn’t trying to make new friends. I was trying to raise two kids and build my business.

Aprille: No new friends.

Brooke: But I do think, you have to remember, not everyone’s going to want to be your friend. And it’s that whole thing that I say. You can be the juiciest peach. Not everyone likes peaches. And if that person doesn’t want to be your friend, they’re not meant to be your friend.

Aprille and I have a want match. We both really wanted new friends that were in this industry and we could really support each other. And so keep going until you find your want match, until you find that friend. And then when you do find it, nurture that relationship and focus on it in a way that grows you.

I think it is one of the things that we end up neglecting is not thinking about having friends. And those of you who are married with kids, that’s when it was really glaring to me is when I got a divorce and my kids went away to college. And I was like…

Aprille: You’re looking around like, wait a minute.

Brooke: Right. So I went out, like I am going to go make friends. And people ask me all the time, how do you make friends? It’s like, this is what you do. Hey, do you want to be my friend? I really want to be your friend. And you can say it just like that. Do you want to be my friend?

Aprille: I want to get to know you.

Brooke: Yeah. My friend Ryan here, I was just like, listen, and I just bought a place. This is so funny, I just bought a place in Scottsdale and a friend of a friend introduced me to someone, and I said to her, “I want to be your friend. I don’t have any friends here. I want to be your friend.” And you know, it’s like third grade stuff.

Aprille: It’s just so cute.

Brooke: I’m like, will you be my friend?

Aprille: And it’s so honest.

Brooke: She may say no. She might be like, “No. I don’t know you.”

Aprille: It’s so honest, but also again, it goes back to Brooke being comfortable with yourself. Instead of pretending like you’ve got - I’m good, no new friend train. It’s like, no, I really want some friends. I want some more Vegas friends.

So I think that’s the whole thing. I think the friendship dialogue has to start with you being your own best friend. And then you being honest enough to seek out and to attract people that you’re really wanting to connect deeper with and have fun with. Not mastermind.

Brooke: Not just mastermind. And not just maintain - really understanding, to bring it all the way home, understanding these are my acquaintance friends who I touch base with and I connect with and I love, and when I see them, I see them and that’s fine. And then there’s your friendships. These are your closest group of friends that when shit goes down, you can call them.

Aprille: Absolutely.

Brooke: And when you feel shame, when you make a mistake, when you’ve done it wrong, when you’re really struggling, you can call them and be like, yo.

Aprille: And then they can say you don’t need to get back with him. I think that’s a horrible idea.

Brooke: Like, what is wrong with you? Stop it. I’m like, “No, this seems to make sense in my brain.” And they’re like, no. And my favorite thing is I go to one friend and I’m like, “Does this make sense?” And they’re like, no. And then I go to another friend, “No.” I’m like, alright, I’m going to call Aprille and she’s like, “No.” Damn it. Then you know, then you know.

Aprille: This is not smart.

Brooke: So I think the way to bring this home and the way to kind of let this be is I think that through the coaching that I’ve done, there are so many of you who try to hang on to friends that have maybe had their season, and maybe that friendship is complete, and beat yourself up because the friendship is no longer working, and feel like you’re going to be alone because you’ve lost your old friends.

And especially so many of my students that are having identity changes right now because they’re becoming coaches and they’re leaving certain working fields. And so I think it’s important to let friendships complete themselves and maybe they will have another season in another time.

And really pay attention to who you’re surrounding yourself with, what they’re saying to you about you, with you, and how they’re showing up for you. And if you don’t have that in your life, really go and intentionally look for it. Because I’m so glad I did. I’m so glad I asked you to be my friend.

Aprille: This is great. I love you. I think you’re amazing. You’re just so sweet and so fun. And just to put a bow on this for me is just continue to be a good person and be honest with what you really want in your life. It’s okay.

This is a very interesting journey as a woman in today’s time, when so many things are evolving, so much differently than for our mothers, and the liberation that we have, it’s okay to want to connect with other women that you have that same vibe with and to be honest about it, and to build your own sorority around it where you’re doing things that you could never share. And I think that's really what’s so fantastic.

Brooke: One of my friends, Jody Moore, really helped me understand what true friendship was. She said to me - well, she didn’t say it to me. She said it to someone else. “Brooke Castillo is going down, I’m going down with her.” And that’s how I feel about you, Aprille. If you’re going down, I’m coming down with you. I’m coming down fighting.

Aprille: Pick me up off the floor, girl.

Brooke: We’ll climb right back up. But knowing that if you’re going down, I’m jumping on there with you, I know Tonya is too, I know my friend Kris is, Jody is. It’s like, knowing that you have people that will forgive you and respect you and have your back I think is worth the effort that it’s taken.

So thank you guys for joining us. Thank you Aprille for coming on the podcast. Listen, Aprille has her own amazing successful business. Will you talk about it just for a little bit?

Aprille: Sure, yeah. I love working with six and seven-figure coaches. We coach through a feminine lens. My whole journey has been about helping women create their own audiences, communities online, and launching their courses, selling their stuff, creating impact in the world, and doing it in a way that doesn’t sacrifice your innate divine, womanly self. And that has been an amazing journey for me and for my clients.

And so I really enjoy that I enjoy events, and this entire epic womanness that’s happening. There’s a reality show coming. We start taping next week. I don’t think I’ve even told you about it.

Brooke: Oh yeah, I definitely want to be a part of that show.

Aprille: Yeah, you will be. And then also I have a podcast that’s launching called Womanly Shit. I’m so excited about it.

Brooke: Womanly Shit. So good.

Aprille: Womanly Shit: CEO Off the Clock. That’s what it’s called.

Brooke: I definitely want to come on that podcast.

Aprille: Because there’s so much more to us. So I’m just having a ball helping so many women be happier inside of their success.

Brooke: I love that. Where can they find you if they want to sign up?

Aprille: Go to my Instagram. Just go to my Instagram, @epicaprille.

Brooke: And again, if you want to come, you can get the show notes and get the links to all of Aprille’s stuff. I highly recommend that you follow her on Instagram. She does some crazy feminine stuff. And one of the things I love about you is you just put it all out there. This is what we got, we’re doing plastic surgery today. Come on in. You’re just so real.

The other thing, Aprille and I did a class that everyone who takes it writes to me and tells me how much they love it called Stop Under-earning. We talk about so much of the socialization that we have been exposed to as women culturally and through all of the images and the things that we see and all the things that we’re taught, and how to undo that so you can make epic amounts of money.

Because we want that for all y’all. It’s so much easier to help people when you’re rich.

Aprille: It is so much easier.

Brooke: And you can have more fun with your friends.

Aprille: Let me tell you something before we go. I retired my mother four years ago, February 3rd. That was a goal that I had. And I’m so grateful for this business that helps me transform other people’s lives and my own life. And it’s having an amazing ripple effect.

Brooke: And thank you for being such an example of what is possible for all of us. You all need to hear Aprille’s story. You can hear it in Stop Under-earning. You can also hear it I’m sure upcoming on our podcast and in her materials.

But what she overcame and did in her life to be able to have this business that she has with so much success and so much freedom is available to all y’all. And so is a friendship as special as this. I love you Aprille. Thank you.

Aprille: I love you back.

Brooke: Bye everyone. Have an amazing week.

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