Got Goals? Join Brooke's brand new Big Goals Workshop here.

A lot of you have been asking to hear more about me and about my story, so here it is… This episode is for you. Today, we’re doing something a bit different. One of my master coaches and colleagues, a dear friend Lin Eleoff, interviews me about my life and business.

On this episode of The Life Coach School podcast, I share my entrepreneurial journey with the obstacles and successes along the way and how I started The Life Coach School. We chat about everything from “The Model” and how it became the foundation for my business, to failure, overwhelm, marketing, mindset and much, much more.

What you will discover

  • What you have to look forward to in the second year of Life Coach School podcast.
  • How I transitioned to entrepreneurship and decided to become my own boss.
  • My career and entrepreneurial ventures prior to launching Life Coach School.
  • Why so many psychologists and psychiatrists are going through Life Coach School programs.
  • How I came up with “The Model” and how it became the platform for my business.
  • The importance of understanding that failure is a choice and not something that happens to you.
  • What overwhelm is and how to deal with it.
  • What marketing means to me.

Featured on the show

Episode Transcript

Welcome, to The Life Coach School podcast, where it's all about real clients, real problems and real coaching. And now, your host, master coach instructor, Brooke Castillo.

Hey everybody, what's up? So, episode fifty two, that is fifty two weeks. Which means one year, one year that I have been podcasting. Whoop, whoop! I am so proud of myself, I am so excited, this podcast has just taken on a life of it's own and I'm so thrilled that so many people love it and I'm so thrilled that I've really honored my commitment to do it for an entire year. And I'm really kicking in to do another year and here's what I've decided to do for the next year, call it year two of The Life Coach School podcast.

I am going to add a Q and A once a month, so any of the questions that I get on the comments in the podcast, I will answer on the comment board, but I will also do an extended answer on a podcast, where I will address all questions and anything you want help with. Anything that you put on that comments board, I am going to dedicate an additional, so I'll do the four sessions, and then I'm going to add a session of Q and A, where I can answer any questions that you have. Anything that you're struggling with, anything that you've been studying with me that's not quite coming together. Anything like that, I'm going to address it. So that will be an additional episode, so there will be the four main ones plus that.

The second thing that I'm going to do that I'm very excited about, is I'm going to add an episode that will be in addition to the four that I'm already doing and the Q and A. This will be the sixth episode of the month and what it will be called, is Coach Wisdom. Where I will interview one of my coaches on a topic that they teach about and I will make sure that it is something that is really relevant to you all. So, in this case we'll be able to offer a topic from one of my students, who's maybe taken my work to a deeper level in one area and we'll also expose you to that coach in case some of you would like to get some additional coaching. I don't offer any one on one anymore and I rarely offer groups and so if you're looking to take your coaching to the next level from this podcast and you want to actually work with someone, I want to give you the opportunity to do that. So look out for that. It's all coming up within the next year of The Life Coach School podcast.
I'm also adding a whole additional podcast to the repertoire, so keep your eyes and ears out for that, because that's going to be exciting and I will keep you posted on what's coming up there.

So, in celebration of my fifty second episode, I have decided to run an interview that was done by one of my master coaches and colleagues and friends, Lin Eleoff, she did a great interview with me and she's very talented when it comes to interviewing, she has a pod ast over there called Gutsy Glorious Entrepreneur, you can look her up. She had some great interviews over there. I was her first interview, which was very fun. She asked me some really good questions and got me kind of telling my story and where I've come from. A lot of you who have asked me more about me, want to know more about my story, this is that episode for you.

So, I just jumped in, she was nice enough to allow me to use this interview and I took out her intro and we just jumped right in to where she starts interviewing me. And if you want more information about Lin and you are interested in knowing more about her, check out her podcast and also you can check her out at and I will put her information in the show notes and that would be, yay! Okay, without further ado, we are going to jump in to an interview with Brooke Castillo. Here we go.

Lin Eleoff: Hey Brooke, welcome.

Brooke Castillo: Hi Lin.

Lin Eleoff: Hey Brooke you are my first guest and-

Brooke Castillo: Yay!

Lin Eleoff: ... so appropriate, because you have had a tremendous influence on me, and my decision to go pro, shall we say and turn my coaching practice into a growing concern. So I have to thank you right up front for your guidance, your friendship and your love. You deserve all the glory in the world, so right up front, I love you and thank you.

Brooke Castillo: Lovely. I love you too, thank you so much.

Lin Eleoff: You're welcome. So Brooke, on your website you said that your vision for The Life Coach School is to become known as the best small online coaching school in the United States. And I just love your vision because it conveys your conviction and your commitment to creating a business from the heart and because I know you and I can attest to the blood, guts and tears you've put into your business, it comes across loud and clear in your marketing, which I want to talk about. But first, let's talk about guts, especially your guts and the glory you've experienced as a result of just believing in yourself. Tell us about how you've transitioned into entrepreneurship and what was the imputes behind becoming your own boss?

Brooke Castillo: Well, I think entrepreneurs, people that are life long entrepreneurs know it from a very young age, I
certainly did. My first business that I did, was when I was seventeen and a half years old, I started a company and I'd always wanted to own my own business because I always wanted to be in charge of myself and I've always loved working and I knew that I had the work ethic to do it. So when I was, you know seventeen I started a business called Beachable Bodies-

Lin Eleoff: Ooh!

Brooke Castillo: ... and I spent a lot of time on the logo and getting business cards printed up and getting a brochure made. It was a personal training company at the time I was really into lifting weights and really into personal training, and so I started my very first business as a personal trainer and it was a complete failure. It was fantastic in terms of propaganda, but I had no idea how to run a business. And so, but it kind of got ... You know, once you have, and I'm sure that many ... I'm sure you can relate to this to, because like once you have your first business that you're the CEO of and you have your own business card that says that on it, it just gets that flavor going and it did for me. I felt like, "Ag yes, this is exactly what I want to do."
Then, of course I went to school, I went to college at Santa Clara University and studied Psychology. And after that went straight into corporate America, it's like I forgot all about being an entrepreneur and I was there for five years before I thought I would die and I knew I had to start another business and that's when I started my second business, which was Europa, which was a hair salon, I started with my hairstylist. And we got a building and renovated it and hired twenty five employees and I really learned what it's like to run a business through that. I mean, I was twenty five years old, I was thrown into the fire of a huge corporation, managing employees in an industry I didn't know or understand at all, but I loved it. I loved putting the business together, getting everything going, dealing with the customers, it was all fantastic. I loved it and then about a year into it, I didn't love it so much.
And I loved the part where I was the business owner, the part that was hard for me was managing all the employees and I mean, really dealing with all the issues that come along with payroll and employee issues and that sort of thing. That's what I was spending most of my time doing. But during that whole time, of course, we would have monthly coaching meetings that I would require all my employees to come to. And I would teach them all everything I knew about self help and everything I knew about goal setting and what I realized was that was my favorite part of running that business, was really those opportunities to work with my employees in that way.
So, I actually ended up selling that business to someone who had much more experience in hair and running a salon and we sold it for a nice profit. It was really ... ended up turning out to be a really good business decision for me, to both start that business and to sell it. And then I went back to corporate America for a little while, until I had the babies. So the real leap, I think is what you're asking about, for me to be my own boss and to start this business, which was you know my third and I think probably final, business for now was just knowing that I was made for entrepreneurship. Knowing that I had what it takes and also I think that it takes so much courage to go all in on yourself. Like you have to have confidence and you have to have a high opinion of your abilities to be able to do that and I think I did. I think I had proven to myself that it was possible and so I really did, I went all in on myself and I haven't really looked back since.

Lin Eleoff: I love that story. I did not know about the hair salon part, I did not-

Brooke Castillo: Oh, yeah.

Lin Eleoff: ... get that part. I beat you though, I started my first business when I was eleven.

Brooke Castillo: Hmm.

Lin Eleoff: I started a newspaper company. I-

Brooke Castillo: Ah.

Lin Eleoff: ... I sold exactly three copies to members of my family, but Brooke I think that was the start of it for me-

Brooke Castillo: Yeah, of course.

Lin Eleoff: ... It was like, oh my Gosh, I am so in charge of this and so I get it. You know, so then I took you know, my career took a slight right turn, I became a lawyer but like you, the best part of it for me, was coaching clients. It's like, "How can we keep you from making this same mistake again?"

Brooke Castillo: Totally.

Lin Eleoff: So, I totally understand where you're coming from. So, let's talk about life coaching though and that turn you took. Because it's certainly become an increasingly popular profession, right? And what's fascinating to me is that so many people who've been coming through your school, are therapists and psychologists and psycho-therapists. How do you ... What do you make of that and what is the difference, do you think, between coaching and therapy?

Brooke Castillo: Well, I think one of the reasons why a lot of therapists want to become coaches and I'll say I probably get three emails a day with requests for that. Which, first of all I think is fascinating because you know what my background is in psychology and I decided not to go on and get an elevated degree because one of the things that I didn't like about the training to be a psychotherapist, is that we were always studying mentally ill people. People that were non functioning and most of the training is about bringing people from non functioning, into functioning. And that never interested me, I was never interested in abnormal psychology or sociopaths or people that really couldn't function, that were having severe problems. I was very interested in dealing with people that were walking it out, that wanted to just walk it out even more. And typically, someone who is functioning, high functioning in their life, doesn't go to a therapist, right? They don't think they need a therapist, that's not something they seek out. That's not true on all cases, I think, you know I was in therapy for many years and I've benefited greatly from it. But had I known that there was life coaching, I might have taken that route, and I think that more and more people are taking that route and hiring life coaches instead of hiring psychotherapists. And I think the work that you do with someone who is high functioning, that needs help, is a much different field, than dealing with someone that's not functioning.
So I think a lot of the people that are coming through, that want to become life coaches, that's one of the things that they want, they want to be dealing with a different audience, a different type of client. I also think that it's, because of it's popularity it's becoming increasing easier to find clients as a life coach and I think that if you can be both a psychotherapist and have your license there and a life coach, I think you really got all the bases covered.

Lin Eleoff: Hmm-mm-hmm (affirmative). I love how you wear the life coach badge so proudly, it's definitely not coated with cheese or anything, so-

Brooke Castillo: No.

Lin Eleoff: ... what do you say to people when they say, "You're a what? What's a life coach?"

Brooke Castillo: Well, I tell people, when people just ask me on the street now, what I do, you know I say that I own a school and that I train life coaches and that I train weight loss coaches. When I was practicing as a coach, mostly I would call myself a weight loss coach and people would ask me what that was. And I would just say, "Deal with the mental part of losing weight." And when people ask me what a life coach is, I do say, I say, "It's similar to a therapist, but it's someone who works with people that are highly functioning. That want to take everything to the next level."

Lin Eleoff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brooke Castillo: And that pretty much clears it up for people and you know people are very intrigued by it. And some people are like, "What, you can't make a living doing that." And I just smile.

Lin Eleoff: Exactly, exactly. So, let's talk about self-coaching 101, upon which you wrote a book about the model and I will include information into the show notes, but tell us about the model. How does it work and how did that become the platform for your business?

Brooke Castillo: When I first became a coach, I am a veracious reader and a veracious student and I was studying everything I could get my hands on that had to do with thought work and mental energy and you know, vibration and emotion and how all those things work together. So I was studying the work of, you know Abraham Hicks, I was studying Byron Katie, I was studying Eckhart Tolle, I was studying everybody. And what I noticed was they all had basically the same themes, the same basic truths, but they were just teaching them in a very different way. I was trying to apply that framework of what they were all teaching, to my life on a daily basis and I was ... I wasn't resonating exactly with any of the tools that they were offering. I had tried all the tools extensively, but I was challenged with how can I use this as a daily practice. I was trying to teach it to my clients and I was struggling there.
So, that's where the model came from, I wanted to create a model that I could use for myself and with my clients that would be very practical, usable on a daily basis for my clients that wasn't as aggressive as some of the other tools and wasn't as coddling as some of the other tools. And I think I ... So I took everything from them, it's not like I created this new concept in the world. I just created the different way of teaching it and learning it and it really helped me so much in my own life and was helping my clients so much. And everyone just wanted to know more and more and more, and that's why I wrote the book and you know, the model has never failed me, it's never failed any of my clients and so it's really been the back bone of everything I teach. And it's a universal truth, so it's something that I can really rely on. Not because I created the truth, obviously, but just because it is supported by that.

Lin Eleoff: Well, and it keeps you in the present, right? It would be nice if we could always just go back to our story and that allows us to get away with stuff right? It helps us-

Brooke Castillo: Right, right

Lin Eleoff: ... stay stuck. Whereas with the model, you're been called out on your own thoughts.

Brooke Castillo: Yeah.

Lin Eleoff: Can you give us a brief description of how the model works?

Brooke Castillo: Yeah, so the model is basically the structure of how the entire universe works, in one little model.

Lin Eleoff: Right.

Brooke Castillo: And so, what it does is it basically shows that there are circumstances in the world that we have no control over. Those are the things that happen in the world and that is the one thing in our life that really isn't optional, right? We have to live in a world that has things happen that we can't control. Everything else in the model, which includes your thoughts, your feelings, your behaviors and your results, all of those are optional. Those we all have control over and so I love looking at the world that way.
There's only this little part of the world that we don't have any control over, but the rest of it, we do. And so the way the model is set up, is to demonstrate that to ourselves in any situation in our life. So, you may have a circumstance in your life that you can't control, and when you experience that, then you have a thought about it and until you have a thought about it, it doesn't affect you at all. So for example, if something happens in the world and you don't know about it, and therefore you can't think about it, it doesn't affect you at all.
So, right now, for sure, someone is getting killed, right? But it's not affecting us because it's not in our consciousness, because we're not aware of it. As soon as we became aware of it, and thought about it, then it starts to affect us. Now, when we think about something, a circumstance, it feels, often if you don't understand this process, that it's something that you can't control. It's a thought that just happens. But when you start doing this work, you realize that that thought is actually a choice. What you decide to think about something, is a choice. And then, once you have a thought, that's going to create an emotion in your body, a feeling. That feeling is going to drive your action that you take and of course, the action that you take will give you your result.
So, the model is really about giving you your power back and really recognizing that you are really in control of creating your experience and how you interpret things and also the results you have in your life.

Lin Eleoff: And then you put all this in a book, which explains-

Brooke Castillo: Yeah.

Lin Eleoff: ... which explains it all so perfectly. And tell me, how did the book affect your business?

Brooke Castillo: The book was fantastic because I had already written one book, and so I knew that that was a really good resource for people. Because what I had noticed was that I was just teaching the same thing over and over and over and over again, right? So the one part that it did, is I was able to give the book to my clients, they were able to read it and then when we started coaching, we could just hit the ground running. The other thing that it did for my business, is it helped my reach, it helped me reach people that may never have ever hired me for coaching, may never have come to a life coach. But were willing to buy and read the book and so that was really fun to get those letters from people that had read it, that weren't my typical client base. And so, and then they would tell their friends about it. So it really widened my reach, in terms of my audience, for sure.

Lin Eleoff: So many women, and I know you hear this too, they say that you know, they'd loved to write a book or they'd love to go into business, but they're afraid. Afraid of failure, afraid of what other people will think, afraid that they're too old. How would you coach someone around those fears that keep them stuck and afraid to even consider starting a business or writing a book?

Brooke Castillo: Well it think ... This is the way I think about failure. Is that I think people think failure is something that happens to them. I think they think, "Oh I tried this and I failed and that's just what happened to me." And the way that I look at failure, is that it's something that you do. And so, it's kind of like someone saying, "I don't want to do this thing called failure." Failure is something that you do because the only way you really fail, is if you quit, is if you stop doing something and then you label it as a failure. So if you see that failure is a choice and it's not something that will happen to you, but it's something that you will choose and you may choose it, you may choose to fail at a business because you don't want to do it anymore. But it's always choice and so when you look at you business that way, it gives you your power back, it gives you the feeling like, "I'm not going to fail because I will never choose that for myself or if I do fail, it will be my choice. So, it's not something I'm at the effect of."
Fear comes from feeling like we're not in control of it. One of the things that entrepreneurship can teach you, if you allow it too, is that you really are in control. Nobody fails until they say they failed, right? I mean there's so many people, if you look at so many women entrepreneurs, who are successful, their pathway is littered with what people would call failure. But the only reason they're not a quote, unquote "failure" is because they didn't stop there. They didn't stop at that red light. So I know for sure that building a business to the extent that I want to build it, is going to be accompanied by fear. And if it weren't, I wouldn't evolve. I think the fear is there to show you when you've reached your next layer of evolvement and I want to evolve. I'm willing to experience the fear that comes along with taking it all to the next level. So, I think a lot of people think fear means stop and I would say that fear means it's time to go, let's do this.

Lin Eleoff: Oh, that makes so much sense because when we think of failure as a negative, then I think that means stop, right?

Brooke Castillo: Hmm-mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lin Eleoff: Oh my gosh, you've done something bad.

Brooke Castillo: Hmm-mm-hmm (affirmative).

Lin Eleoff: But if you can turn the definition of failure into, "Get up, try again." So that it's almost something neutral and then you can redefine, it think that's just brilliant. Because we need to expect fear, and I think in a way we must expect failure.

Brooke Castillo: Yeah, and I think sometimes we set ourselves up a little bit. I know that my students, I see them do this a lot, where they have an expectation of what they want to see happen. And they don't see that they're the one that needs to make it happen, right? They want to just have it happen and so when it doesn't happen, then they call themselves a failure which is such a shame. It's like, "How can you say that you're a failure? You didn't even do anything?" You know. "You put something out there and wanted a bunch of people to buy it, but you didn't do anything to market it. You didn't do anything to create the buzz about it for people to buy it and then when they didn't, then you called it a failure." But what I would say is, "Okay, this didn't give me the results I want, what didn't I do to get the right result and what can I do differently? And am I willing to try seventeen more things, if not fifty more things to get that right thing?"
I mean, most people want to try one thing, I'm going to try and do this one way and if it doesn't work, then I'm going to say it didn't work. And I say, "You're not allowed to say it didn't work, first of all if you didn't work your ass off, and second of all if you didn't try seventeen things, seventeen different ways." So, I think that when we set ourselves up by having kind of expectations that we're entitled to success without working for it, I think that's when you get into that downward spiral. And people think that it's easier to not have to work for that, but I would say the opposite is true because when you can tie your own effort into your success, it gives you so much confidence. Because you know, "Oh all I have to do, is that and then I create that. The harder I work, the better my results are."
And I'm not talking about the kind of work, where you're suffering and toiling against yourself. That's not anything like I would ever suggest that anyone do, but I'm talking about really smart, dedicated, focused work.

Lin Eleoff: And you know, this sounds so much like the kind of coaching you do around weight, right?

Brooke Castillo: Yeah.

Lin Eleoff: It's just, it's just another portal to, another way to get to enlightenment, if you will. It's like, it could be the food on your plate, it could be your online business. It's the same-

Brooke Castillo: Sure.

Lin Eleoff: ... thing, right? So it's how we do one thing is how we do everything.

Brooke Castillo: Exactly.

Lin Eleoff: So, yeah that is so cool. So tell us about some of your obstacles or some of the quote, unquote "failures" you've had and what you've learned from them.

Brooke Castillo: Well, I would say the obstacles that I faced are all me, of course. I would say the biggest obstacle any entrepreneur is ever going to face, is their own self doubt.

Lin Eleoff: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brooke Castillo: And I think that self doubt is sneaky, because I think that it comes in the forms of looking like things aren't working out for you and really, if you're willing to look inside and see that most of the things that don't work out, or that we term failures are things that we've created for ourselves. Are really coming from our own mindset and what we believe is possible for ourselves. And I would say one of the biggest obstacles for me, in my coaching business and also with the school business, is just being surrounded by the right people. And working with the right people has made a huge difference because when you're working with people who can recognize that you're in your own self doubt, and help coach you through it, I think that is one of the most important things. Because you know, as you know, when you're in something you can't see it. You think you're being competent, you think you're ready to go but then there's all these little things that you don't have perspective on that having someone there to kind of point those out to you is really awesome.
So one of my obstacles has been having the wrong people around me, that haven't been able to help me do that. So, I think that that's a huge thing to consider, like where is your support system and do you have the right people. I love the way Jim Collins calls it, "Do you have the right people on your bus?" You know, to make sure it's going to take you to the next level.
I think to, one of the major obstacles is just knowledge, it's just being willing to learn what I need to know in order to say market my business, you know. I feel like the coaching part I really have done and I really understand, but the other piece that I really needed to learn when I was building my business, is marketing. And so I don't know if I saw that as an obstacle, more than just you know, a path I needed to go down, to really understand and learn.
Lin Eleoff: Well, and we often hear too, that overwhelm is one of the major obstacles with so many people coming into or starting a business for the very first time. And of course, that can be a roadblock that we construct so that we don't have to sort of move past it, but-

Brooke Castillo: Yeah.

Lin Eleoff: ... but how do you suggest someone who is just ... someone who may be listening to this and who's starting her own business and doesn't have all the resources yet to be hiring people and have a team. How could she go about this to minimize the overwhelm?

Brooke Castillo: Well, I think overwhelm is one of those emotions that we create with our mind, that has very little basis in reality. When I'm coaching someone through overwhelm and they say, "I have so much going on," and, "Oh my God, it's so overwhelming, there's so many things to learn." I say, "Okay, what are the things you need to learn? Write them down." And it's usually like four things, right? "Okay, what do you have going on? Write down what you have going on." And when you really write it down and when you really bring it back to the ground, you realize that overwhelm is just fear pretending to be overwhelm, right?
If I'm ... like you said, if I'm overwhelmed, then I really don't have to take any action, but as soon as I take the story of overwhelm and put it down on paper and make it something that I can execute over the next year, then I realize, "Okay, you know this isn't something that isn't doable, this is just me trying to you know, exasperate my fears so I can just be immobilized.

Lin Eleoff: Brooke, you work with your husband Chris, who is just the coolest guy. What's that like?

Brooke Castillo: Well, it's really interesting because I just recently went through my own, kind of, come to Jesus moment with myself and my husband and at the beginning of this year, we had just gotten back from our ... we went on a year long trip and we were just coming back. We were either going to go all in on this business, or Chris was going to go get a job back in corporate America, which he has thought about doing. And he actually started the interview process and was going back there and I had this image of staying at home and living off the fruits of his labor. It's just one of those things where you know, then I wouldn't have to take myself to the next level and go through the work that, you know has been required of me. But of course that's the work I really want to do, but you know everybody goes through this, where you're just like, "I just want to," for me it's like, "I just want to be a hostess, I just think that would be easier." Like you go to work, you seat people at their tables and then you go home and you don't have to think about it anymore. It's my version of hiding, you know. That's my escape, is dreaming about just doing that.
And so, part of what I was going through with Chris was, "Hey, yeah that sounds great. You go get a job and I can hide." Is basically what I was going through and we spent a lot of time really talking about how our life would change if we then had this job that would be telling Chris when he could take vacations and when he would have to be at work. I mean we had this life where he's home and with our children all the time and I'm with the kids all the time, we have this beautiful, wonderful life. And I almost let my fear ... And he's very willing, of course to do whatever is best for our family, and so I almost let my fear get in the way of us having this amazing relationship, in terms of being business partners.
And so, I had to do a lot of work. I actually got a lot of coaching, from one of my coaches about it and really realized what I was doing, really sabotaging myself and my work because I was afraid. And so we just recently came to this point where we recommitted to our business together and to being business partners and to taking it all to really much higher heights. And not having anyone else in our lives telling us what we have to do, but us really creating that and that has made all the difference in the world for both of us in terms of, you know what we want to do with this business. And really ... I mean Chris has always believed in me and the business and I really needed to up level my game in terms of believing in us as business partners and our life style. Because I had always kind of had this nagging fear that it wasn't healthy for us to have all of our eggs in this one basket and when I really think about it is, what better ... if you're going to go all in, what better way to go all in then on a business that's already proven to be successful and one that has so much potential to grow.
So now, I really feel like we're on fire. The two of us together and I would say that working with your husband, is one of the most magical things that you can do because it creates another dimension to our marriage that is so fantastic. Because it's not like he's having to go work on something that means nothing to me. Like if he has to go work extra long hours, I'm like, "Well you're going and helping A,B,C company be profitable at the expense of our family." Versus, when we're here together and he needs to work on something, it's for all of us. It's for our family, it's for our business. It works better and he's very understanding of course when I'm working on something in the business. So, it's fantastic, I love working with him.
But my kids have always had their dad, you know. Chris picks them up from school, he's at all their sporting events and so am I and so, they can't understand when he was interviewing for jobs and looking for jobs, him being away was something that they really didn't understand or want to have happen. Not that it wouldn't have been fine for them to do it, but it's kind of like we're all used to hanging together. I love that we have that opportunity, that our business and being an entrepreneur. And really, ultimately, my guts you know, initially in starting the business is what created that. So yeah, it was scary but gosh, look at the benefit of it.

Lin Eleoff: Yeah, you're one-

Brooke Castillo: It's fantastic.

Lin Eleoff: ... gutsy chick. That's for sure, that is for sure. Brooke, we touched on it a bit before, but let's talk about marketing again because there's just so much about that list building and selling and then up selling and "Market like this, don't do it like that."

Brooke Castillo: Right.

Lin Eleoff: And I know you did spend so much time studying all these-

Brooke Castillo: Yes.

Lin Eleoff: ... various marketing techniques. So how did you manage to call it all down and what does marketing mean to you?

Brooke Castillo: What marketing means to me, in one sentence, is letting people know you can help. And I think there are many thousands, hundreds of thousands of people, that want my help and want what I have to offer them. I know that because I was one of those people at one time, right? And so I do feel that if I don't let them know I can help and they want my help, then I'm doing a disservice to both them and to me. So it's changed my perception of marketing. Marketing isn't selling something to someone who doesn't want it. It isn't convincing someone to buy something that they don't want. It's letting people who desperately want my help, know that I can help. And of course, that's a completely different view of going out there into the world and offering something for sale.
And the way that I market and the way that I've learned to market, is by educating people. The way you let people know that you can help, is you show them, by helping them.

Lin Eleoff: Hmm-mm-hmm (affirmative).

Brooke Castillo: Right? And so, that's been huge and in terms of building a list, I think that when you don't understand what that means, or how to do that, you just want to kind of like look the other way. "I don't really want to deal with that whole thing because I don't really understand it." But, the way that you can think about building a list, is just building a list of people who really want and need what you have to offer. And having a responsibility to those people and that has really changed how I kind of offer ... I mean people are offering you their email address, you better give them something fantastic in return. Because, I know for me to give out my email address, it's just like giving someone a hundred dollar bill. Like you're getting space in my inbox, you better rock it out. Because I want to get my value because I'm paying you with my email. And when you think about it that way, it's very easy to build the list because you attract the people that want to be in your inbox. You know, that want you in their inbox.

Lin Eleoff: Yeah, it sounds to me like for you marketing is more about giving than selling?

Brooke Castillo: Yes, absolutely.

Lin Eleoff: Yeah, yeah.

Brooke Castillo: Absolutely, because there's so many people on your list. I love to think about it this way, there's so many people on my email list that will never buy anything from me. But they're being touched and changed by what I have to offer them and you know, if the reason you're in business is only to make money, that will mean nothing to you. But if your in the business, which most life coaches are, weight loss coaches and life coaches are in the business to help people, then your list becomes a source of joy. Because I get emails from people all the time that say that my work has touched them. People that I never will ever do business with and that's a amazing feeling.

Lin Eleoff: It is an amazing feeling and as one of your instructors at the life coach school, I can see first hand how it changes people's lives as they become, or as they're learning to become a coach, their own lives are changing, so much personal growth is going on. What attracts them to your school?

Brooke Castillo: What people say to me, is that they get some exposure to the model. And they get a taste of it and they see how ... You know, I just had someone email me yesterday, they're saying like, "I've been through this training, this training and this training and I'm also a candidate for a PhD, but I've never seen anything as mind ninja as the model." And I think that people that want to be mind ninjas on themselves and with their clients, are really attracted to it. So, I think that they get some exposure to the model, they get some exposure to the work we do and a lot of people are attracted to the intensity of the work we do. We're not fluffy at all. We get right down to business, we learn and we push ourselves from the get go.
So, I think that people are attracted to that. You know, there's other schools that take a lot longer to teach what we teach. And they do it in a, I would say, a more gentle way in terms of knowledge, not the fire hose way that we teach it. But the people that want to learn the way I want to learn, which is, "Give it all to me as fast as you can, and let's do this." Are the people that are attracted to us and we are focused on a pretty narrow niche of people that, you know are really the go-getters, the ones that want to hit the ground running. The ones that are really in a space where they're willing to have their minds cracked open, I would say.

Lin Eleoff: And life coaching as a business, how lucrative can life coaching be?

Brooke Castillo: You are the only limit to how much money you can make. I mean, there are life coaches who make in the seven figures, just life coaching, right? Just doing one on one coaching and there are people that are charging, literally, two hundred thousand dollars for coaching. So, I mean I've looked at some of these and it just blows my mind what some people make life coaching, it's awesome. So, but most people aren't interested in making a million dollars as a life coach. They just want to know, can they make seventy thousand dollars and that is very doable. Very doable as a life coach. People will say, "No, it's not. Look at all the life coaches that are out of business. That aren't making any money." And blame that on life coaching, which you most certainly cannot do, right? Because if it was life coaching that wasn't lucrative, none of us would be making good money life coaching and there's tons of us that are. And yet, there's tons of us that aren't as well. Just like there's tons of people making money in the stock market, and there's tons of people that aren't.
The difference is, "Have you learned what you need to learn? Have you done the work on yourself that's required to overcome your own self doubt?" And, "Are you willing to put the work in?" I think those are the main three questions. And if the answer's no, it doesn't mean you beat up on yourself, but you don't tell yourself it's because of this life coaching industry. Because this industry is limitless, I think in terms of ... I mean I really feel like we are, online entrepreneurs, are really where the dot comer's were, what was it ten years ago, right? I feel like the potential we have, it's almost like it's a secret. You know, like, "Should we really be able to make this much money doing what we love?"

Lin Eleoff: Right.

Brooke Castillo: And we're really doing what we love. I think it's unbelievably fantastic.

Lin Eleoff: Yes, doing what you love, that is ... And I know you would never tell anyone to do anything, except if they've loved it first. So that's what's so amazing about this.

Brooke Castillo: Okay, but let me just add to that because I think there's a little bit of a misconception where people think, okay ... I was just coaching someone and they say, "I want to quit my corporate job because of this, this and this and I want to become a life coach entrepreneur." And I said, "Your head's not right. I don't want you to leave that current job until you know how to like that current job. Because just because the three things you don't like about your corporate job, there's going to be three things for sure you're not going to like about being a life coach and being an entrepreneur. Because you love the work you do, doesn't mean that there aren't going to be parts of that job that are going to be challenging and hard and not your favorite thing to do." And that's part of it, right? But I like that that's part of it, because I think that it requires us to do our work on ourselves. So, I would say, too for new coaches, is like, "Don't be afraid to like do that stuff you don't want to do." It doesn't mean that like, "Oh my gosh, I'm in the wrong profession because I don't like doing that." There's always going to be parts of what you do that aren't your favorite. But that can be your opportunity, instead of the thing that makes you quit.

Lin Eleoff: Well, coming full circle now, you had said that when you had your salon business, one of the things that you didn't like dealing with was the business side, you loved the creative side, so how do you-
Brooke Castillo: Yes.

Lin Eleoff: ... deal with it now?

Brooke Castillo: Well, I think that one of the things that's been really helpful for me, is first of all delegation. You know, the stuff that I don't do well, and the stuff that I don't enjoy doing as much, I delegate. But I will say this, before I delegate anything, I make sure I know how to do it. And I make sure I know how to do it well. Because I think that delegating any part of your business that you don't understand, is dangerous. So, I learned like even website creation, doing my own books all of that stuff, I need to understand it enough so when someone else is talking to me, I understand what they're saying and I also need to understand it enough so I can manage the person doing it to my standards. So, there's a lot of parts of this business that I wouldn't have ever done, had I not ... You know, I would have never learned how to build a website, that's not my, you know that's not my will house of expertise. But I now know how to do it and it's something that I kind of have on my tool belt and it's something I'm able to delegate. So, I like that, I like that I do stuff that makes me feel uncomfortable and stuff that it's not my favorite to do. I really think that that's part of being a fully evolved person.

Lin Eleoff: So, what lies ahead? What are you doing now to make sure that your future will be bigger than your past?

Brooke Castillo: Well, I mean my goals are outrageously big and that's, of course, my guarantee that my future will be better and bigger than my past. And I feel like I'm constantly learning, I'm constantly pushing myself, I'm constantly evolving. And you know, when I hear people talking about freedom, I think for me ... A lot of people say, "If I have a bunch of money, then I'll be free." The way that I think about freedom, is knowing that I have the ability to create money. And one of the ways that I know that, is because of my learning and my evolvement and putting myself out there and pushing myself past anything that could have been a failure. And so if you were to take everything I own away from me now, I would not be afraid. Because I have it within me, I'm not relying on anyone outside of me to take care of me. And so I know what I've had the ability to create so far, but I'm also better than I used to be because of the work that I've done. So, I know that when I create my future, will be even bigger, and that's exciting.

Lin Eleoff: It is exciting. Brooke, thank you so much for being the first guest of Gutsy Glorious Entrepreneur, I do consider you a dear friend and fellow entrepreneur. And I can't wait to see what else you have in store for the world. So big hugs to you my friend.

Brooke Castillo: Right back to you, thank you so much Lin.

Lin Eleoff: Thanks.

Brooke Castillo: It's been a pleasure.

Lin Eleoff: Thanks Brooke.

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